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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: Interpretation of Scripture by Scripture |
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From the John's Gospel thread:
| bobbyc wrote: | | I have no wish to derail this thread from studying John's gospel (although pace my earlier post I think we're in for a very long thread!) but I do sometimes wonder whether it's correct to use other scripture verses to support a claim made on the back of one particular passage. Surely such cross referencing goes against the grain of recognising and understanding the particular context (particularly in terms of audience and why it was written) that belongs to each individual gospel or epistle. If anyone does want to respond to this observation I'd suggest opening a new thread. You can always copy and paste my post (or part of it). |
I would submit that it is essential for a right & spiritual understanding of Scripture to study related passages.
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Agreed. Most Bibles contain cross-references to either related OT passages (as and when they are quoted, or prophesies fulfilled), or to passages describing the same scenes in other Gospels
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davelarge
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure that there's also something about reading a specific passage against the background of the message of the rest of the bible. But that's very wishy-washy, I know.
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-theophilus-
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Well, all Scripture - both Old and New Testaments - should be read in a Christ centered way if that's what you mean. If we are not looking for Christ in scripture then we're not reading it properly.
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| -theophilus- wrote: | | Well, all Scripture - both Old and New Testaments - should be read in a Christ centered way if that's what you mean. If we are not looking for Christ in scripture then we're not reading it properly. |
This could be a very short thread, as so far we are in total agreement 
We can read the OC Scriptures through a range of "filters"
Dispensationalism, whereby the promises & prophecies concerning Israel are yet to be fulfilled, & the present church dispensation being a "parenthesis" governed by the New Covenant, while God is saving the Gentiles before returning to resume his dealings with ethnic Israel.
Covenant Theology, whereby God's covenant dealings with his people progress from the Everlasting Covenant with Abraham & his seed, through the Old Mosaic Covenant with Israel, to the perfect fulfilment by the New Covenant in the blood of Jesus. All the people of God become one body in Christ, aka Israel, or Abraham's descendants, & there is no separate future for ethnic Israel.
Judaism, which rejects Jesus as Messiah, & is still waiting for Messiah to come.
History, without a guarantee of accuracy or significance - just a collection of ancient scrolls.
Orthodox & Catholic Theology, which see the NC as the fulfilment of the OC, and sees the visible hierarchical Church as the continuing & authoritative body established by Christ.
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davelarge
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Just out of interest, what's the basis for believing the dispensationalist line?
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| davelarge wrote: | | Just out of interest, what's the basis for believing the dispensationalist line? |
Cyrus Scofield - a disreputable character who added to his crimes of abandoning his wife & children, the misapropriation of his mother-in-law's savings, et al, the crime of writing his notes into Bible. Somehow this corrupted Bible became the standard free issue to evangelical colleges. It was the version many people in my student days carried. A church member did a Bible course at at local American Missionary Baptist Church & everyone was given a free copy.
This shows his extraordinary thinking:
| Scofield wrote: | Gensis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Now the Lord
The Fourth Dispensation: Promise. For Abraham, and his descendants it is evident that the Abrahamic Covenant (See Scofield "Genesis 15:18") made a great change. They became distinctively the heirs of promise. That covenant is wholly gracious and unconditional. The descendants of Abraham had but to abide in their own land to inherit every blessing. In Egypt they lost their blessings, but not their covenant. The Dispensation of Promise ended when Israel rashly accepted the law Exodus 19:8. Grace had prepared a deliverer (Moses), provided a sacrifice for the guilty, and by divine power brought them out of bondage Exodus 19:4 but at Sinai they exchanged grace for law.
http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/ScofieldReferenceNotes/srn.cgi?book=ge&chapter=012
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For a biography of this teacher of evangelicals, see here.
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jtheb
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have skip read the url given. I am not convinced of the accuracy of the interpretation that is put on some of the schofield statement.
The latest schofield notes I have read are not the same as in an earlier version and I find much more influenced by "left behind" philosophy.
Schofield was like the rest of us a fallible human.
IMO his notes should be read with careful reference to the bible to avoid throwing out the baby with the bath water. But please throw out the bath water.
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jtheb wrote: | I have skip read the url given. I am not convinced of the accuracy of the interpretation that is put on some of the schofield statement.
The latest schofield notes I have read are not the same as in an earlier version and I find much more influenced by "left behind" philosophy.
Schofield was like the rest of us a fallible human.
IMO his notes should be read with careful reference to the bible to avoid throwing out the baby with the bath water. But please throw out the bath water. |
By "bath water" do you mean: Scofield; dispensationalism; Scofield's notes ...?
A fallible human who keeps his past secret, & continues in sin after his supposed conversion is not one whose "Bible" should be accepted as the standard reference Bible used in evangelical colleges.
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jtheb
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking for myself I still sin even after conversion. Others may find themselves to be perfect.
What I meant was that it is not necessary to ignore or reject everything in the notes. Take what is good throw away that which is bad.
Baby = good stuff. Bathwater=bad stuff.
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jtheb wrote: | Speaking for myself I still sin even after conversion. Others may find themselves to be perfect.
What I meant was that it is not necessary to ignore or reject everything in the notes. Take what is good throw away that which is bad.
Baby = good stuff. Bathwater=bad stuff. |
Thanks for clarifying.
There is a lot of difference between those who acknowledge their sin, & keep stumbling onwards & upwards, & those who hide serious sins that would disqualify them from eldership. Grievous sins committed after conversion. We do not need Scofield's notes - there are plenty of reputable commentators, some of whom, however, have trained using lessons based on the notes.
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jtheb
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Commentators are just commentators to be acccepted or ignored as we feel led.
As far as I am able I accept no commentator's explanation unless I feel it is in accord with scripture.
That includes schofield and a number of other commentators. The present scholfied notes are not as he wrote them but an updated modification.
On the subject of dispensations IMHO they are a model not a set in concrete series of facts.
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jtheb wrote: | Commentators are just commentators to be acccepted or ignored as we feel led.
As far as I am able I accept no commentator's explanation unless I feel it is in accord with scripture.
That includes schofield and a number of other commentators. The present scholfied notes are not as he wrote them but an updated modification.
On the subject of dispensations IMHO they are a model not a set in concrete series of facts. |
THat places us in substantial agreement.
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davelarge
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Covenanter wrote: | | A fallible human who keeps his past secret, & continues in sin after his supposed conversion is not one whose "Bible" should be accepted as the standard reference Bible used in evangelical colleges. |
That sounds a lot like what -theophilus- was saying about the way to distinguish the right interpretation of the bible through the Saints.
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| davelarge wrote: | | Covenanter wrote: | | A fallible human who keeps his past secret, & continues in sin after his supposed conversion is not one whose "Bible" should be accepted as the standard reference Bible used in evangelical colleges. |
That sounds a lot like what -theophilus- was saying about the way to distinguish the right interpretation of the bible through the Saints. |
Not exactly, but Scofield's life after his claimed conversion casts doubts on his integrity, let alone his qualifications as a Bible interpreter. The converse fact that a man's Christian life is exemplary does not qualify him as a Bible interpreter. However, agreed interpretations by godly believers down the ages should give a clear lead in interpretation.
There are of course areas where this does not hold - e.g. infant baptism & church hierarchy.
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