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davelarge
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: John's gospel |
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After recent talk of biblical interpretation in the Lion's Den, I thought we should have a go at doing some for ourselves.
How about we read John's gospel and study it together? I'm not quite sure how to make it work. Perhaps we should take it a chapter at a time, or a section at a time.
Anyhow. Here is a link to the first portion. Feel free to post any comments you like.
davelarge
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Read John literally and you get nowhere. You will NEVER "understand, recognise or receive" the one about whom the book is written.
He demands interpretation. To rephrase the introduction to John in the "Festival of 9 Lessons & Carols," St. John gift wraps the mystery of the incarnation.
Not just any interpretation. When we believe, and receive we become children of God, and have the Holy Spirit to enlighten us.
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jtheb
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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How is reading John literally non productive?
Lets study as suggested.
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VictoriaPlum
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: |
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John's gospel is lovely. He does a fair bit of interpretation himself! He takes us behind the scenes to show us Jesus's divine nature.
So - let's!
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| jtheb wrote: | How is reading John literally non productive?
Lets study as suggested. |
How do you read these words LITERALLY in the context?
WORD, LIFE, LIGHT, DARKNESS .... Why call the word "he"?
John is revealing mysteries. We may be familiar with the Gospel, so that we have a spiritual understanding of the words used, but an untaught reader will be wondering who or what the writer is talking about.
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davelarge
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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I'll kick us off then.
John 1 vv1-2: | Quote: | | In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. |
Now, I understand that it's accepted that the Word in this context is Jesus. That's a fairly hefty piece of interpretation, and we're only at the sixth word! How can we back this up?
davelarge
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jtheb
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Read on a bit.
In Him was life. The word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
Sel explanatory for the identity of the word.
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| jtheb wrote: | Read on a bit.
In Him was life. The word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
Sel explanatory for the identity of the word. |
... provided you know a lot about the incarnation of Jesus from other sources.
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jtheb
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: |
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It is the next few verses.
We are told that the "word" is God, is the Creator, is the Light, and so on.
The ability is only to read and understand the english.
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davelarge
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just to be pedantic: How do you know that "he" is Jesus and not, say, Mohammed?
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jtheb
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose because the following verses talk about John and his statements that do not apply to mohammed
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VictoriaPlum
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Muhammed wasn't even a twinkle in his old man's eye then!
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1:1-5 (NRSV)
"All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it."
The "Word" (Greek logos) of God is not just speech, it is Creator God (Gen1.3, Ps 33.6).
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davelarge
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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OK, that's good. I think we can justify applying "Logos" to Jesus, but I just wanted to make sure that we'd ticked all the boxes.
So, what does the part about him being God and being with God mean?
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bobbyc
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| davelarge wrote: | OK, that's good. I think we can justify applying "Logos" to Jesus, but I just wanted to make sure that we'd ticked all the boxes.
So, what does the part about him being God and being with God mean? |
It means that He who was "made incarnate of the virgin Mary" was himself God and was always God and as such was present at Creation. The problem is that so much of what we draw from scriptures (and not only John's Gospel) is fed and informed by a recognition/understanding of other scriptures. Also, much as it grieves me to disagree with jtheb but it simply won't do for us only | Quote: | | to read and understand the english |
since the original Greek words used often have connotations that don't translate easily. A very simple nonbiblical example is that French has two verbs for 'to know' - savoir and connaitre. However they are not interchangeable since savoir is used of knowing facts whilst connaitre is used of knowing people. Our English bible translations are really only starting points. One must look beyond and behind the translation to gain more insight into what the author(s) were trying to convey. |
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bobbyc
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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P.S. This is going to be one mighty long thread if the entire Gospel is going to be discussed in this way.  |
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