Three in one?

Nancy · Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 1097 Location: Illinois, U.S.A.

Why is it that Jesus always stated that His Father was greater than Himself?
He has stated in response to some questions that only the Father knows certain things.
I was brought up to believe that the Father,Son+Spirit are equal,the same.
What am I missing here?
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You O Lord are the potter, I am the clay,the work of Your hands.

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

watcher · Joined: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 60

Also, as some of the church fathers had it, Jesus recapitulates in his humanity (incarnation) the entire life of fallen man, demonstrating perfect obedience to the Father. To this extent, he can set the example for his own flock ("He had to be made like his brethren in all things" - Hebrews 2:17) in acknowledging the greatness of God above all other human considerations. That he could exemplify such humility, lost in the squandered original essential relationship between man and his Creator, in his assuming the persona of a servant while temporarily emptying himself of his divine glory (Philippians 2:5-11) is a remarkable manifestation of divine grace. We cannot claim parity with the Father, as Jesus rightfully could, but we can follow his exquisite example as the author and perfecter of our faith in lauding the Father as the one who is eternally greater than ourselves but who has mercifully reached out to us to bring us home again in the person of his Son.
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"For with Thee is the fountain of life;
In Thy light we see light."
- Psalm 36:9

Isthmian · Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: 142

Further, Jesus greatest sacrifice was not only the work on the cross, but his giving up his Godhead to become man, to sacrifice his divinity in order to come among us as man, imagine what that must have been like for him.
Having done that on our behalf he was in the position of being a servant to, and a son of, the one true God. As such he was subject to the will of the Father as are we all.
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Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary use words. — St. Francis of Assisi

Nancy · Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 1097 Location: Illinois, U.S.A.

As Jesus never stated it(I think) where do you suppose the idea came from that He was both human+divine? I realize He spoke of both the Father+Spirit,but did He ever once mention three in one?
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You O Lord are the potter, I am the clay,the work of Your hands.

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

Jesus certainly did declare His divinity (I suppose His humanity was never in question amongst those who lived with Him).

"Before Abraham was, I AM", echoing the words of God in the OT when He states the same thing.

"Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father" is another pretty strong statement in favour of Christ's divinity.

There are other examples. Indeed, the reason the Jews wished to crucify Christ was because of His blasphemy (i.e. claiming to be Divine).

The Trinity is less clear, in terms of Scriptural proof. You can read the whole Bible and see many references to God's triune nature.... but you have to be looking for it. The revelation of the Trinity came extra scripturally, with the coming of Holy Spirit and man finally understanding His nature (i.e. also Divine). On Thursday is Ascension day, the day Christ ascended to Heaven with promises that the Holy Spirit would come among the Apsotles. And He remains still.

Glory to God
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ICXC NIKA!

bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1345

Scripture does not definitively declare the concept or doctrine of the Trinity at all in the simplest way of things. Trinitarian belief, as theo has pointed out, has been teased out of Christian writings (canonical and non-canonical probably) over the years. If I was being mischievous I might observe that this is actually one in the eye for the sola scriptura brigade. Icon_wink

Isthmian · Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: 142

There is an excellent web site, newadvent.com, commonly called the Catholic Encyclopedia that has a 'proof from scripture' page for the trinity. It's at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm#II

I am not Catholic but don't mind utilising their excellent resources as long as one understands the necessarily Catholic slant to any information one finds there.
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Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary use words. — St. Francis of Assisi

bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1345

I have come across that site in the past Isthmian but I still stand by my original observation that scripture does not directly teach the doctrine of the trinity. The doctrine, like that of the Rapture which is held by some Christians, has grown and developed over the years from the interpretation of various scriptures. That being said I do believe (as I have stated on another thread) that the Trinity is arguably the single most essential doctrine that Christians are called to uphold. It is in doing so that Christianity is differentiated from the likes of Christadelphianism and Unitarianism as ersatz forms of Christianity.

Nancy · Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 1097 Location: Illinois, U.S.A.

Bobby,could you please rephrase your last sentence? I don't understand so many of those big words....sigh Icon_shy

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You O Lord are the potter, I am the clay,the work of Your hands.

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

We should expect to see references to the Trinity littered throughout the Scriptures of course, both Old and New Testament. However it is the Incarnation, the person of Jesus Christ, Who is the revelation to end all revelations and the Illuminator of all.

That is why to read the Trinity in the scriptures, we must already have faith in the revelation of Christ. It is Christ Who drove Paul to retreat with the Scriptures and search for Him there, not the scriptures that revealed Christ to Paul. That is why I agree with Bobby when he says:

Isthmian · Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: 142

Eddie c · Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 685 Location: Manchester

Covenanter · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1446

Sisyphus · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject:

Eddie

Below is the quote from another thread where Bobby first mentioned this and Watcher picked it up and offered more.