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Janie
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 736
Location: Essex of course....is there anywhere else ?
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 Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| maria wrote: | Janie
What really annoys me is that everyone promotes their own beliefs as true. Christians some promoting tongues and experiences others not.
I was reccomended an FIEC church here they allow for differences they say,but the bickering still goes on and they are divided in what they believe.yet they say that's okay doesn't matter so long as you believe In the basics.
Well it was an FIEC tongue speaking Pastor who told me about David Wilkerson and Nicky Cruz,I checked this out with others before giving info to others who were seeking.Later I am told these ones were wrong,so I have had to now tell this to the ones I gave the info to.This didn't go down too well with them.
And so it goes ,so why sit under teachings that are false?The arguments over Tongues signs/wonders have split so many churches.Yet they all claim to use the Scriptures and can support their beliefs from Scripture?
Now I am told Pentecostals are wrong,having been helped by such ones in the past????and some from ROT.
It is the same with the pro/anti Israel thing both can use Scriptures to support their beliefs.
I don't remember such arguments growing up in the RCC. We just knew Judgment day was coming and Jesus. |
Maria you are so right. Funny thing is one of the things I remember saying to someone once was *We never had these squables in the RC church* The RC church may have had it's faults and differences of opinion but at least we were unified in the Mass, and we knew the Lord was coming back  |
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 562
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Janie wrote: | | The RC church may have had it's faults and differences of opinion but at least we were unified in the Mass, and we knew the Lord was coming back |
Very important. Unity lies in the Mass, in the way Christians come together to worship. How else did Christians have unity before the New Testament canon was fixed (or even written)?
I don't think that even the Catholic church fully realizes the importance of this (otherwise they wouldn't have so dramatically changed the liturgy as a result of the Vatican 2 council). The Orthodox church traces its liturgy back to an ancient one ascribed to St. James the Apostle
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ICXC NIKA! |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Theo,
I am going off topic but what do you think of this
A comment from Alpha the unofficial guide.
Interfaith meetings held by John Paul 11.
"One of John Paul 11s most amazing feats was the gathering at Assisi ,Italy,in 1986 of 130 leaders of the world's 12 major religions to pray for peace,Praying together were snake worshipers ,fire worshipers.spiritists,animists,North American witch doctors.Buddhists,Muslims,and Hindus,as well as Christians and Catholics .The pope declared that all were 'praying to the same God' On that occassion the pope allowed his good friend the Dalia Lama to replace the cross with Buddha on the altar of St: Peters Church in Assisi and for him and his monks to perform their Buddhist worship there" |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1367
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| maria, does that Alpha guide suggest that this was a brave or foolish act of the late Pope? It could be seen as an amazingly good thing or else it could be seen as amazing (as in unbelieveably so) that the then pontiff even considered such a thing let alone arranged for it to happen. |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| "The omnipresent New Age movement... is also helping to bring the World Religions together,especially through Western adoption of aspects of Hindu and Buddhist thought and practice,The RCC has done much to contribute to this in advancing its strategy for ecumenical and religious co-operation.For example,the entire May/June edition of the 'Catholic World' in 1990,was given over to Buddhism,Among the articles....were 'The Buddha revered as a Christian Saint ' and a glowing biography of 'His Holiness the Dalai Lama 'The Tibetan leader (who is in fact,God to most of his followers) was described as having frequent contact with Rc leaders,including his old friend,John Paul 11... [who endorsed him as a great spiritual leader..' |
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Talitha Tetelestai
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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If the late Pope believed they were all praying to the same God..well 'nuff said.  |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Bobby,
Foolish ,I believe the same.
One of the reasons I cannot return to the RCC ,where my heart is and the people I love are.
Having said that I will defend the RCC where she is right, and will defend individual Rcs when I know they love the Lord.
Notice Christians and Catholics. |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Rome goes on to say:
"Upon the Moslems,too, the Church looks with esteem... They adore one God... They strive to submit wholeheartedly even to his inscrutable decrees...Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere him as a prophet.They also honor Mary ,his Virgin Mother; at times they call on her,too, with devotion.
"John Paul 11 [has] allowed a Shiva priestess to create the traditional Shiva mark on his forehead....the New Age Dictionary defines the Shiva [also called the 'prince of demons' ..as the Hindu God of illusion.Yoga,Animals,Ascetics ...if the Rc pope is 'Jesus Christ's Vicar On earth' ..then how can he sanction the false religion of Hinduism? How can he allow a ceremony which clearly identifies himself as being subservient to the Shiva Priestess? |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1367
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| So presumably the book is critical of Alpha on the grounds that it is too ecumenical? The whole issue of the Alpha Course is probably worth a thread of its own instead of taking this one off topic though. |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Bobby
Okay |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Going back to tongues.
Alpha has a Holy Spirit weekend has anyone here experienced this? |
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't remember such arguments growing up in the RCC. We just knew Judgment day was coming and Jesus. |
As you know Maria i also was a Roman Catholic. I was thought to have the "Vocation" and would become a Priest.
Volumes have been written about the Arguments -debates that have gone on in the R/C Church. In times past if you disagreed with the Pope you could end up in the flames. In Ireland my experience was that one was frightened to question the priest.To do so could mean you going to hell.
When i met the Jws and was becoming intrested in thier teachings,i invited the priest to come and talk to them. It was a disaster. He did not bring a bible and was only intrested in defending as he put it "the one true church".
I also think that another reason there appears to be no `arguments` is because it seems as though you can believe whatever you want to as long as you keep it to yourself. Debate and argument come about when people hold strong views. I know it can get a bit tiresome,but i also think it can be healthy.
As long as we are secure in Christ and in what we believe,it can be good to share different ideas.
Just my thoughts.
Eddie
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1446
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| -theophilus- wrote: | | Janie wrote: | | The RC church may have had it's faults and differences of opinion but at least we were unified in the Mass, and we knew the Lord was coming back |
Very important. Unity lies in the Mass, in the way Christians come together to worship. How else did Christians have unity before the New Testament canon was fixed (or even written)?
I don't think that even the Catholic church fully realizes the importance of this (otherwise they wouldn't have so dramatically changed the liturgy as a result of the Vatican 2 council). The Orthodox church traces its liturgy back to an ancient one ascribed to St. James the Apostle |
United in the mass, where the elements are supposedly transubstantiated into the real body & blood of Christ, but not united in the drinking of the cup, withheld from the laity.
United in the mass, when to deny transubstantiation was to suffer martyrdom.
United in the mass, where the transubstantiated elements are elevated & worshipped.
| Quote: | Catholic Encyclopaedia
The elevation of the Host at Mass seems to have brought in its train a great idea of the special merit and virtue of looking upon the Body of Christ. Promises of an extravagant kind circulated freely among the people describing the privileges of him who had see his Maker at Mass. Sudden death could not befall him. He was secure from hunger, infection, the danger of fire, etc. As a result, an extraordinary desire developed to see the Host when elevated at Mass, and this led to a variety of abuses which were rebuked by preachers and satirists. On the other hand, the same devout instinct undoubtedly fostered the introduction of processions of the Blessed Sacrament and the practice of our familiar Exposition and Benediction (qq.v.). |
I do not think that that unity is true unity IN CHRIST, as enjoyed by the primitive church, who met together in the unseen presence of their risen Lord, to worship him, & enjoy are shared meal in remembrance of him, looking forward to his glorious return.
Theo, I have been accused of not arguing with you. Dare you endorse the idolatory of the RC mass? The practice described developed after the great schism.
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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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VictoriaPlum
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 718
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Erm...we do drink from the cup quite often actually but usually it is when there are less people because you need so many eucharistic ministers. Where I go during the week the precious blood is offered. |
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