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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Manchester
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 Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Paul said...
| Quote: | | In what way can I therefore have good fellowship with either of these people, both of whom believe my experience to be in error, although my experience accords with scripture. Why should I worry about it? I don't! My experience is in accord with scripture, and if it doesn't fit with their unbiblical theologies, then that is their problem to worry about |
We can accept each other as brothers in Christ even though we disagree about certain doctrines. Wheteher it is `good` fellowship or not will depend on our attitude. A bit of humility would help.
I agree with Cov.Tongues were for a sign,a sign to the Jews that God was judging them. The purpose has been fulfilled and the sign has ceased.
I have friends who take a different view and we enjoy `good` fellowship together. The problem arise when we try to push our views on other people.
This happened to me and my wife when we were first saved. Because we did not speak in tongues we were made to feel that we were second class christians. Good fellowship is difficult under those circumstances.
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: |
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It's a bit like when I was in the JWS and we had the superior super spiritual ones,the ones who were pioneers etc: they were looked on as being 'aglow' with the Spirit.Some Christians have an air of being 'elite' about them.
I am not cessationist but am very wary of abuse of gifts because I have seen similar in new age practice.
At my conversion experience on my knees crying,praying,all sorts of feelings and I felt a surge of something inside me then started muttering and singing everything I sort of stopped whatever this was because it scared me so much.I was like this for days,sort of bursting.
I told Pete Eddie,and he said I had been 'born again' I didn't know what he meant.
I was also in church once when I was very moved ,but in that church they don't express their feelings.
Haven't we all been sort of lost in prayer at times,? in great communion with the Lord? I know I have.This is what He wants,how He wants us to get closer to Him.why Jesus taught us to pray 'Our Father'
Sometimes I can't get words out,just sort of think them and the Holy Spirit helps.
Being an EX Cath I was used to the supernatural,miracles etc:
All these things are of God though and not man,
I accept that God will do what he will do.give what He will give |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: |
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BTW
I dont speak in tongues......................not yet only English .A Pentecostal man told me I do ,that I was baptised in the Spirit and the mutterings and singing were in the Spirit?I dont think we should rule anything out.I dont understand many things but do know the Lord has done some pretty amazing things for me.
Praise the Lord. |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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When I was with the JWS we had an us and them mentality,I don't have that anymore and never will again.
Some people can fake things or just mimic others,and then there are Brain waves and Alpha rythmn
I had a lot of people pushing their ways/beliefs on to me at a time when I was vulnerable. |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| What about the Welsh Revival? I mean what makes men leave the rugby and the pub to go to church and weep? some very unusual and supernatural events happened then. |
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harleygirl
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 47
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Wow Maria you have been around a bit lol.
I'm an ex catholic as well, and so is my husband and kids. I agree with what you say that God has done great things in us and everyone's experience is sooooo different. I think some programmes on television can be deceiving, and sometimes we feel inadaquete as Christians, but we need to step back and look back on our past life to see how much the spirit of God has changed us, in our beliefs, views and spirit. When I feel that I havn't progressed as a Christian I look back at the life that I led before I was saved and realise that Jesus has worked a miracle in my heart, that hopefully people can see the light of Jesus shining through me. I know I have still got a long way to go but I will get there drip by drip instead of a big woosh. Jesus is still doing his work in me, and I will accept whatever he will call me to do.
I feel our personal realtionship with Jesus is what is the most important thing, not what gifts that we have.
Thanks everyone for your input.
God bless Nichola
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keepingthefaith
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I feel our personal realtionship with Jesus is what is the most important thing, not what gifts that we have. |
You said it sister  |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1367
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul wrote: | When the apostle Paul asks "Do all speak in tongues?", we can learn two things from the question.
1. Some people clearly do speak in tongues. This thoroughly refutes the cessationist position - i.e. the unbiblical idea that tongues have ceased.
Actually Paul it doesn't refute the cessationist position because you have diswcoubnted the possibility that the tongues experience you and your fellow pentecostals have is self induced and thus erroneous.
2. The clear implication is that not everyone should speak in tongues. This thoroughly refutes the classical pentecostal view that tongues is a necessary sign of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. There are many who would argue that your assertion here (that tongues is a necessary sign of spiritual baptism) is plain wrong. I happen to be only one of the many.
In what way can I therefore have good fellowship with either of these people, both of whom believe my experience to be in error, although my experience accords with scripture. Why should I worry about it? I don't! My experience is in accord with scripture, and if it doesn't fit with their unbiblical theologies, then that is their problem to worry about.
Your experience accords to your interpretation of scripture just as the experience of the other two accords with their interpretation of scripture. Your problem does not disappear just because you choose to sweep it under the carpet.
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Harleygirl,
Thanks,I guess my life has been a really busy one and I have met so many different people .One thing being a JW we met people on the doors and you would be suprised at some of the things we heard.
I also come from a large family with varied beliefs/interests.so you can imagine the chats we have.Though they consider me to be the religious nut.Yet they come to me with problems.
Godbless you.
I like what you said....... also drip by drip not a big woosh.
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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As a JW we met a few who were involved in the occult,also met some witches.One asked us in and we had to stay in the dark as she didn't like any light,so curtains were never opened.
I had a JW pioneer friend who was raised in a Spiritualist church,she saw many strange things ,face changes,voice changes and more,Some of what Vince has seen and written about in his book. |
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Paul
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Eddie c wrote: | | I agree with Cov.Tongues were for a sign,a sign to the Jews that God was judging them. The purpose has been fulfilled and the sign has ceased. |
Then you have to believe that my experience is erroneous. That is your problem, not mine, because I know that my experience is from God, and genuinly exists.
Your opinion that tongues have ceased is clearly unbiblical. Your problem is that your experience is that tongues do not happen in your fellowship. It is wrong for you to argue from your experience - we must always find our doctrines in the Bible, rather than twisting the meaning of scripture as you and the other cessationists have done.
Interestingly, God gave me the gift of prophecy at a time when I held to the cessationist view, as you do. God has a sense of humour. |
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Paul wrote: | | Eddie c wrote: | | I agree with Cov.Tongues were for a sign,a sign to the Jews that God was judging them. The purpose has been fulfilled and the sign has ceased. |
| Quote: | | Then you have to believe that my experience is erroneous. That is your problem, not mine, because I know that my experience is from God, and genuinly exists. |
Paul, i dont have a problem.
| Quote: | | Your opinion that tongues have ceased is clearly unbiblical. |
You are entitled to your opinion. I think my position is biblical.
| Quote: | | Your problem is that your experience is that tongues do not happen in your fellowship. |
I dont have a problem.
| Quote: | | It is wrong for you to argue from your experience - we must always find our doctrines in the Bible, rather than twisting the meaning of scripture as you and the other cessationists have done. |
Seems to me that it is you who is arguing from experience. I agree we must let the bible be the source of doctine.
| Quote: | | Interestingly, God gave me the gift of prophecy at a time when I held to the cessationist view, as you do. God has a sense of humour. |
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I know he does....he once spoke through an Ass.
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Sisyphus
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 2142
Location: United Kingdom, Not Europe....
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Eddie c wrote: |
I know he does....he once spoke through an Ass.
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".... love thy neighbour as thyself." is the hardest thing I have ever done.... |
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watcher
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Post deleted.
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Last edited by watcher on Sun May 06, 2007 7:11 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Talitha Tetelestai
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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It is getting very personal, here and on other threads.
Give it a break everyone, please, or this place will vanish in a puff of smoke,seriously. |
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