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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 562
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:06 am Post subject: Literal Truths and Greater Truths |
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From another thread:
| Quote: | | So then, why pray to Saints when I have a direct line to the omnipitant God who knows the very numbers of the hair on my head....or is that not to be taken literal either. |
In response the question in bold, yes and no. 
"Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows" - Luke 12:7
Does God know the numbers of hairs on my head? Yes of course, but the verse was written to convey much more than that. The verse is also used as an example showing that God knows us better than we know ourselves.
But.
The verse itself doesn't say that God knows us better than we know ourselves, it is an interpretation that must be inferred. A plain literal reading of the verse would tell us that God knows the number of hairs on our heads and nothing else. Saying that God knows us better than we know ourselves could be said to be going "beyond what is written".
Noone is saying that God isn't omnipotent, and I am sure everyone here interprets the verse as I do: God knows us intimately, and He loves us.
Yet the argument of "abscence of evidence = evidence of abscence" is often used by sola-scriptura Christians in other situations. Maybe it's not always wise to do so?
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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What if you are bald 
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One thing i do know.I was blind but now i see. |
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crystal
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| I might live to regret this but what is meant by sola scripture? I have seen referred to a few times but do not know what you mean by it. |
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keepingthefaith
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Eddie c wrote: | | What if you are bald |
I can't help it I know it's  but you crack me up sometimes and I think sometimes we have lost the humour we used to have in here
(((Eddie)))  |
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jtheb
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1448
Location: second childhood
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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sola scriptura is a term I never hear except by RC or Othodox.
I implies that only what is written in the bible is Gods will.
Most people I know would say it should be used to say that only things which are compatible with the bible are correct.
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 562
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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I think Luther probably used the term "sola scriptura".
The second definition you give is still something I believe to be not found in Scripture itself (thus making the belief illogical).
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jtheb
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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Location: second childhood
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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You are probably right the Luther used the phrase.
I am not sure why you dislike the second definition. It is not found in scripture but I am sure is compatible with scripture.
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crystal
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you for the answer I had assumed that was what it meant but I thought I would make sure. |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jtheb wrote: | sola scriptura is a term I never hear except by RC or Othodox.
I implies that only what is written in the bible is Gods will.
Most people I know would say it should be used to say that only things which are compatible with the bible are correct. |
Attempting to flesh out jtheb's definition, my understanding of the phrase has always been that it represents the claim that only that which is actually written in the bible can/should be used to bolster a theological argument. In other words, Tradition, custom, habit, practice have to defer to the plain words of scripture. .
Edited by Moderator. |
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genea
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| bobbyc wrote: | | jtheb wrote: | sola scriptura is a term I never hear except by RC or Othodox.
I implies that only what is written in the bible is Gods will.
Most people I know would say it should be used to say that only things which are compatible with the bible are correct. |
Attempting to flesh out jtheb's definition, my understanding of the phrase has always been that it represents the claim that only that which is actually written in the bible can/should be used to bolster a theological argument. In other words, Tradition, custom, habit, practice have to defer to the plain words of scripture. .
Edited by Moderator. |
and then there is the thorny problem of Bible idioms. we know the Lord owns the cattle on a thousand hills but does He own the cattle on the 1001st hill and then of course there are those tree's in Isaiah clapping their hands  |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| In all seriousness I knew a Christian boy who had been praying about whether or not he should ask a particular girl to go out with him. One Sunday evening he felt that his prayer had been answered in the affirmative when the music group led the congregation in the singing of You Shall Go Out With Joy. Honestly folks that's a true story. I was not that boy though! |
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Sisyphus
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 2142
Location: United Kingdom, Not Europe....
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Don't tell me the girl was called Joy...
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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How did you know that?  |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1446
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Literal Truths and Greater Truths |
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| -theophilus- wrote: | From another thread:
| Quote: | | So then, why pray to Saints when I have a direct line to the omnipitant God who knows the very numbers of the hair on my head....or is that not to be taken literal either. |
In response the question in bold, yes and no.
"Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows" - Luke 12:7
Does God know the numbers of hairs on my head? Yes of course, but the verse was written to convey much more than that. The verse is also used as an example showing that God knows us better than we know ourselves.
But.
The verse itself doesn't say that God knows us better than we know ourselves, it is an interpretation that must be inferred. A plain literal reading of the verse would tell us that God knows the number of hairs on our heads and nothing else. Saying that God knows us better than we know ourselves could be said to be going "beyond what is written".
Noone is saying that God isn't omnipotent, and I am sure everyone here interprets the verse as I do: God knows us intimately, and He loves us.
Yet the argument of "abscence of evidence = evidence of abscence" is often used by sola-scriptura Christians in other situations. Maybe it's not always wise to do so? |
Have any of you looked at the verse in context? God's protection of his saints is the meaning. We are very precious to him.
Mat 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.
Mat 10:30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
The Lord is alluding to the Psalm, & the fears of the Psalmist. Jesus assures his disciples of his protection.
Psa 40:11 Do not withhold your mercy from me, O Lord;
may your love and your truth always protect me.
Psa 40:12 For troubles without number surround me;
my sins have overtaken me, and I cannot see.
They are more than the hairs of my head,
and my heart fails within me.
Psa 40:13 Be pleased, O Lord, to save me;
O Lord, come quickly to help me.
Literal interpretation is imo not interpretation at all. God has a spiritual meaning throughout the OT relating to Christ. (See Luke 24.) If we miss that, we haven't begun to understand the Scriptures.
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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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genea
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Literal Truths and Greater Truths |
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| Covenanter wrote: |
Have any of you looked at the verse in context? God's protection of his saints is the meaning. We are very precious to him.
Mat 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.
Mat 10:30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
The Lord is alluding to the Psalm, & the fears of the Psalmist. Jesus assures his disciples of his protection.
Psa 40:11 Do not withhold your mercy from me, O Lord;
may your love and your truth always protect me.
Psa 40:12 For troubles without number surround me;
my sins have overtaken me, and I cannot see.
They are more than the hairs of my head,
and my heart fails within me.
Psa 40:13 Be pleased, O Lord, to save me;
O Lord, come quickly to help me.
Literal interpretation is imo not interpretation at all. God has a spiritual meaning throughout the OT relating to Christ. (See Luke 24.) If we miss that, we haven't begun to understand the Scriptures. |
nice spot Cov  |
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