Creationism

crystal · Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 308

I have complained to the BBC about tonights episode of Waterloo Road.
There was a story line about how they are becoming an academy and the person putting the money in is a Christian, not sure the fact that he is American is of any importance.
The characters who got involved in the story line ALL believed in evolution and ridiculed the idea of anyone believing in creation. The story of Noah and the flood was laughed at as well.
I personally found this very offensive and have sent a formal complaint.
I wonder if anyone else saw this programme?

Talitha Tetelestai · Guest

I didn't see it, but I'm not surprised.

Hey, theres a good chance you might even get laughed at in some churches for believing in creation and a literal flood.

It'll certainly happen to you on a christian message board sooner or later if you try and defend them.

It's sad and disheartening,actually it's heartbreaking, but it seems to be how the land lies from now on.

crystal · Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 308

I just checked the programme website and it has a clip of a child saying that she was told that the dinosaurs were dragons and that they could not have lived millions of years ago because the earth is only 6,000 years old.
The next shot in that clip is the teacher talking to the head and saying that they need to be careful because who knows where this creation propoganda will go.
I accept that not everyone believes in creation but as a christian the bible tells us that God created us. Even if people want to say that it was 6 periods of time rather than 6 24 hour periods, I cannot understand why any christian would deny creation.
My concern here though is that this programme called creationism propaganda and then went on to talk about evolution as a proven fact, whilst creationism is ridiculous.

Talitha Tetelestai · Guest

Yes,

I understand your concern.

Sadly, it is the way things are though.

What we can do, apart from stand firm in our belief and trust in the Lord, I don't know.

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

I think the Creationism camp does itself a lot of harm by debating the subject at all.

It is certainly claimed that accepting the Biblical account of creation is a stumbling block for many, but I frankly don't believe it. That sort of thing simply isn't important to most people. Of all the many Christian friends I have, not one came to Christ through debating, or even thinking about, the evolution vs creation debate. They came through repentance, an acceptance of their own fallen state, through seein the love shown by Christians, through mystical experience, or any other number of examples of God's grace but not by having their views of evolution deconstructed. Of those Christian friends, some carried on believing in evolution, others accepted the literal Biblical account - but in every case that came after their coming to Christ.

The battle lines do not lie here.
In a spiritual battle, do not be lured from the high ground to debate on things that have no bearing on our salvation, or the immediate salvation of those around us. IMO that includes evolution, acts of violence by God in the OT, the Crusades, homosexuality (if the people we are talking with are not homosexual), and anything involving Israel. And that's just off the top of my head.
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Talitha Tetelestai · Guest

Why would a christian not believe that God created the world?

And if christians do not defend creationism as the truth, what witness is that to the unsaved about the veracity of the bible and the saviour and salvation it tells of?

Creationism may not have a bearing uopon someones immediate salvation, but if the unsaved see that even the saved don't believe that God created the world as He has claimed to..well..you can imagine what witness that is to our God and to us..

I mean, if He didn't create the world, maybe He didn't mean it about sin and repentance and salvation either.

If the foundation is corrupt,perhaps it's all corrupt and God is just a big joke..or a liar..

jtheb · Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 1449 Location: second childhood

Nice to agree with you Theo, mainly.

Evolution/creation does present grounds for arguement with those who want to polarise on either side.
Discussion is non productive and is best avoided.

I recall again Mark Twain's comment that it wasn't the parts of the bible that he didn't understand that worried him. It was the parts that he did understand that gave him trouble.
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-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

Thanks John.

Hi TT,

Just to be clear, I take creationism to be the belief in the literal interpretation of Genesis. Some Christians don't hold to that, but still believe God is the origin of all life. In addition, and this was my main point, I haven't seen anyone move from a position of unbelief to a belief in a literal Genesis account then a faith in Christ. It's always been faith in Christ first, then (perhaps) belief in literal Genesis. So debating the issue with non-Christians is unproductive as John said.
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Talitha Tetelestai · Guest

Debating may be unproductive, but being seen to uphold the truth of the bible isn't.

There will be people who came to faith in God by coming to an understanding of the literality of creation, I am sure John McKay, who now debates on the subject, is one.

Ken Ham gives some excellent talks on upholding the literality of Genesis as the solid foundation of our witnessing and introducing others to Christ Jesus.

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

Talitha Tetelestai · Guest

Yes, of course, the love of God and the need to be in that love is the basis of witnessing.

What Mr Ham means is that what happened in Genesis is the foundation for what Jesus did to save us - for example - how did this sin and death we need to be rescued from enter the world?

The reason Jesus came to save us began in genesis, it is the foundation of our story and His(earthly story).

But, of course, if we evolved then this is not true, there was no definite fall since death will always have been.

If you like, I suppose Genesis is the historical foundation of our faith (how we got here, how we ended up like this),and the integrity and love of God in Christ Jesus is the (wrong word,but I cannot think of a better one) spiritual basis of our faith.

I think Mr Ham believes the two are married together into a compound whole, and destroy one and there is the danger of the other collapsing.

I do agree with him in this.

Its a bit like knitting, pull the wrong bit of wool and the whole thing is unravelled before you know it.. do away with the literality of Genesis and suddenly theres no flood..no exodus and before you know it we are dismissing half of scripture as being allegorical or untrue...and since the second half of the book is founded on the first..well if thats untrue..

Perhaps someone else can explain what I am trying to say, since I cannot say it as adequately as I would.

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

Talitha Tetelestai · Guest

But thats just it Theo, people can honestly debate the need for salvation and the reality of sin..millions upon millions have since the world began, and they are dying around you every day whilst doing it.

Part of that is because evolution has been accepted as true - not just by unsaved people but by some christians too.

Think about it, if there is no creator God, if He did not make us, we just sprang to life randomly, then what evidence is there of Him in this world? and what likelihood that we would ever have to answer to Him?

We have the answers the world needs.

Wipe out Genesis and we can't tell people why we are here, or why the world is the way it is, why we die and suffer,..

crystal · Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 308

The point I was making was not if we believed in creation or not, it was the fact that this programme presented a theory as if it were true, and mocked christianity. In some parts of the world creationism is taught alonside evolution as a equal position of faith.
The fact that they mocked Christianity should be offensive to all, I bet they would not have used a muslim theory in the same way.

keepingthefaith · Guest

I think that we could use a lot of biblical stands to introduce the Gospel message, Ken Ham uses Genesis and creation to uphold his way of thinking regarding salvation. Other teachers use prophecy, others use the Gospels and the Gospel message which I would say is fundamental and has no room for other doctrines or theories because you cannot take the Gospel of Jesus Christ and change it. Where as the others, creation, prophecy etc without the fundamental message of the Gospel being preached will not save you nor will it not get you to heaven if you believe in and old earth or post trib or no trib, so to say it is fundamental to the Gospel i' don't think it is but I do think that certain beliefs like replacement theology and old earth etc are just plain false doctrine but they do not damn a persons soul.