@ Theo

Sisyphus · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: @ Theo

Theo, would you mind having a look at this for me please. It is very long and unless you really want to there is no need to go through it all. The opening chapters are the ones of immediate interest to me and it suggests this is standard thought for the Orthodox Church. I would be most interested in your comments and thoughts on it. Thanks

http://www.bethel.edu/~rakrob/files/THEOSIS2.html
_________________
".... love thy neighbour as thyself." is the hardest thing I have ever done....

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

I had a quick look over and it seems a fair commentary, although with obvious biases*. I think one of the reasons I converted to Orthodoxy is that "western" (for want of a better word) Christianity's view on the afterlife, and on Judement seemed very unsatisfactory. Indeed, the article you gave mentioned the predominately western view of salvation being a simple "not guilty" verdict. The Orthodox vision of theosis ringed truer to me - to come into full communion with God, Who is pure, divine Love. Anything less than this doesn't seem to be the action of a loving God Who became man and suffered torture and death for the salvation of mankind.

One thought I'll add in the hope it wasn't covered in the article: theos is the Greek word for God and comes from the word to "run", "see", or "burn". We cannot experience God in His essence as He is unknowable, we can only experience Him in His energies - when He reveals Hmself to humanity. It is God's energies that are being referred to when the Church Fathers talk of theosis.

One analogy I heard is that of a sword being plunged into a fire. The sword does not become the fire, but takes on the properties of the fire. We will remain the same, but still burn with the same fierceness as the Divine fire.

I still like St Athanasius' arresting quote thought:

"God became man, so that man could become God"

*For example, "Evangelicals may receive considerable benefit from a clear understanding and judicious appropriation of the doctrine." -- If we find the truth shining as a beacon calling all to know God, it is better to move towards it rather than move the truth towards our current position. In the latter case a beacon may end up turning into a wrecking lantern.
_________________
ICXC NIKA!

Sisyphus · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject:

Thanks for that Theo. I am going to read some more and come back to you if that's ok.
_________________
".... love thy neighbour as thyself." is the hardest thing I have ever done....

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

Shame about the other thread being locked.
I thought it was interesting though can't participate as much at the moment

And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

As JWs used to say 'there is nothing to fear from examining whatever religion we are in' the truth stands up to being tested.

Fear can be very controlling.

Talitha Tetelestai · Guest

Just to say Maria,

not to have a go at you, but it's not fear that causes the admin and the mods to "rule" on certain things here (ie:post/lock threads), it is just that there are some areas we are absoloutely united on and feel it is very important to stand firm on.

For example, if someone were to challenge the deity of Christ we could not allow that to go on, and would have to act.

There are other forums where that would be allowed, but this is not that kind of Christian forum.

Maria Icon_hugginsmileys_753

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

TT
I understand how you want to run your forum but it can end up with limited discussions.

One thing being a JW taught me out on the doors was to talk with all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds/beliefs.
One thing we always picked up on was people's fears when they were challenged on their beliefs.I have seen the same kind of fear on forums not just this one.and also when talking with Christians.

I would say the only person I have ever come across who was cool with what he believed was a Buddhist.His whole attitude was 'whatever is right for you' Though I didn't join his belief system and gave reasons why.

On the doors we met many Christians who closed the door saying'we are saved,we have our own beliefs'.It's great to be sure of your beliefs but in order to share with others you have to meet them where they are.

Think of Paul in Ephasus etc:

Now I say this in love and to help Christians understand about reaching out to others.But as a JW we said B/As had a very self-righteous attitude about them ,and we mocked their rapture theories (JWS once believed this)
You would be suprised at the rudeness shown to us on the doors and the names we were called.

But the ones who were unafraid and didn't mind being challenged and were 'listeners' and polite lovely Christians who cared ,they impressed us.One in particular I remember who was a Trinitarian,and he didn't show off his superiour knowledge or 'I am saved your not' but we really liked this man so much so that we talked over what he said later in the group.

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

Since becoming a Christian I have had discussions in all kinds of places with all kinds of people.In a hospital.in a pub. in a park,in a car.At a gay mans Mothers funeral. With 'gays' in a Bar talking with an alcoholic.over the phone ,in a church, etc: etc:

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

I have had a Pastor say to me that he tells his congregation to shut the door on JWS,Mormons ,yet they send missionaries out to pagans and shamans etc:
I would say open the door be polite but also be careful as they are recruiting, and if you are able to then help them

Same goes for anyone else.

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

I asked questions about Traditions ,which I came acroos as I was reading a JEWISH HISTORY BOOK

Abba Eban was a spokesman for Israel and Israel's causes

Sisyphus · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:16 am Post subject:

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

Sis Thanks ,love you too.
I was actually asked not to leave and encouraged back.
So Have tried to post despite ill health.If you want me to leave ......okay.

Sisyphus · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:17 am Post subject:

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

Sis,
Was that answer sincere?

It is up to me and I do do whatever I choose.
Same for you Dude.

I come here also to answer PMs but then that is of no interest to you is it.