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keepingthefaith
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 Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Don't forget Israel |
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Sometimes we tend to forget, but Israel needs our constant prayer, just read this in JSD's
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881801325&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Ahmadinejad to Haniyeh: Israel close to disappearing. 02 November 2006
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh held talks in Doha, Qatar on Friday.
The Islamic Republic News Agency reported Saturday Ahmadinejad saying, "As everybody knows, the Zionist regime was created to establish dominion of arrogant states over the region and to enable the enemy to penetrate the heart Muslim land."
Saying the Israeli regime was inherently a "threat," and was "on the verge of disappearing" Haniyeh praised the support of the Iranian government and nation for the cause of the Palestinian nation, saying, "The Iranian nation's brilliant stand in the rightful battles of the Palestinians encourages them and signifies their deep understanding of Islamic principles," reported Iran's official state-run news agency.
"The Intifada (uprising) of the Palestinian nation will continue until the cause of the Palestinians is materialized and Al-Quds Al-Sharif (Jerusalem) is liberated," added Haniyeh.
Ahmadinejad went on to say that, "Today scores of Western politicians are in doubt as to the future of this illegitimate regime and its existence has come under question.
"There is no doubt the Palestinian nation and Muslims as a whole will emerge victorious," the Iranian president told Haniyeh.
"The continued commission of crimes by the Zionist regime will speed up the collapse of this fictitious regime," said Ahmadinejad.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53083
Wake up, Israel! by Joseph Farah. 24 November 2006
I don't know what it will take to awaken Israelis from their slumber.
But I know they don't have much more time.
For years, Israelis have fooled themselves into thinking they could negotiate peace with all their neighbors – even those whose only real objective is to see all the Jews dead.
Israelis have convinced themselves that if they are reasonable, if they go the extra mile, if they just continue to demonstrate random acts of compassion for their enemies, that they will be their enemies no longer.
It should be clear to everyone by now that these random acts of compassion are actually random acts of suicidal compassion.
Take, for instance, last year's exodus from the Gaza Strip. The Israelis forcibly dismantled the homes and communities of perfectly law-abiding Jews bringing prosperity and life to a previously unsettled, arid land.
Why did they do it?
Because Gaza is to be part of the new Palestinian state. And the Palestinian Authority, the governing institution of this pre-state, doesn't want any Jews in their new country.
The Israelis didn't argue that this is a racist notion. They didn't protest that no nation should be created on such a foundation of hatred. They didn't suggest that forcibly removing law-abiding civilians from their homes and businesses because of their religion and ethnicity represents the worst form of ethnic cleansing.
No, they didn't do any of those things. Instead, the Israelis knuckled under to the Hitlers in headscarves of the Palestinian Authority. They drove out the peaceful Jews – not the violent haters of Jews.
Now the chickens are coming home to roost in Gaza. Did Hamas reform? Did the terrorists lay down their arms as a result of Israel's beneficence? Were the Palestinians so shocked and awed by the Israel's latest random act of suicidal compassion that they decided to live within their new borders and leave the Jews alone?
No, of course not. Those are not the lessons they learned. The lesson they learned from the latest strategic retreat by Israelis is that they have their enemy on the run. They learned they should keep doing what they are doing – that terrorism works.
So, now that Hamas has consolidated its power in Gaza, they are, as promised, using this territory to launch attacks on Jewish civilians in Israel proper.
The only way to stop the regular rocket fire on the Israeli city of Sderot – about three miles from Gaza – is for the Jews to evacuate from there, too, says Hamas.
The idea of withdrawing from Gaza was to give the terrorists what they said they wanted – land for their new state.
But that was never the real goal.
The real goal is the destruction of Israel. The new state is only a means of getting there.
Israelis and many Americans don't understand this yet. They believe the Palestinians will be happy if they get a new state. They will forget about destroying Israel. But this conflict has never really been about a new state. It has always been about destroying Israel. The new state is merely a vehicle for achieving Israel's destruction.
What we're seeing in Gaza today is a perfect illustration of what I am saying.
If you give this beast an inch, it will take a mile. You cannot quench its appetite with appeasement. It only makes the beast more ravenous.
Will Israel ever learn?
When will the Jewish state awaken from this slumber?
How long can a nation keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results? |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Don't forget Israel |
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| M.C.Nige wrote: | Thanks for posting this KTF.
It is interesting to observe that when the Israelites entered the Promised land and failed to drive out the inhabitants (instead allowing them to dwell in the land), it is Israel who suffered. A case in point being the deception that Joshua and the Israelites fell for at the hand of the Gibeonites in Joshua Chapter 9. |
The whole question of "peace & safety" in the Middle East is fraught with intrigue & deception. Prayer for peace is certainly called for. Trustworthiness is in short supply. Regardless of our views on prophecy & the status of the present nation of Israel, the militant Moslems have an agenda that threatens us all, whereas the Israelis' agenda concerns only the ME territory.
The Gibeonite example is a surprising one as all the Biblical evidence indicates that they kept to their side of the covenant. Even in the time of David, they were vindicated. THere is no indication that the Israelites themselves suffered through their covenant with Gibeon, even though they had been forbidden to make such a covenant. Indeed they immediately won a miraculous victory defending their new servants. (Josh. 10)
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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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hupernikao
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Don't forget Israel |
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| Covenanter wrote: | The whole question of "peace & safety" in the Middle East is fraught with intrigue & deception. Prayer for peace is certainly called for. Trustworthiness is in short supply. Regardless of our views on prophecy & the status of the present nation of Israel, the militant Moslems have an agenda that threatens us all, whereas the Israelis' agenda concerns only the ME territory.
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what is the israeli's agenda for the middle east then?
i know what God's agenda is for the middle east is as its plainly written throughout all scripture but im intrigued to whether this statement above is meant to suggest that the jews have an agenda that threatens the middle east!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Don't forget Israel |
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| M.C.Nige wrote: | | Covenanter wrote: | | There is no indication that the Israelites themselves suffered through their covenant with Gibeon, even though they had been forbidden to make such a covenant. Indeed they immediately won a miraculous victory defending their new servants. (Josh. 10) |
Which tells me that the Israelites did suffer. Can you see the irony of the Israelites fighting a battle in defence of a people they should have been attacking and driving out of the land? This incident is for me is a fantastic picture of how when we walk by sight and not by faith, we can be distracted from the true purposes of God and end up fighting the wrong battles. |
Have you any Scripture supporting what you wrote? You might like to begin with Josh. 9:1-2.
Joshua's curse was turned into a wonderful blessing that contiued for centuries:
Jos 9:23 Now therefore ye [are] cursed, and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen, and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God.
Why did they deceive Joshua? Becaused they believed the LORD! (9:9, 24.) THey wanted to be covenant people with Israel. (9:6)
_________________
May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1446
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Don't forget Israel |
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| hupernikao wrote: | | Covenanter wrote: | The whole question of "peace & safety" in the Middle East is fraught with intrigue & deception. Prayer for peace is certainly called for. Trustworthiness is in short supply. Regardless of our views on prophecy & the status of the present nation of Israel, the militant Moslems have an agenda that threatens us all, whereas the Israelis' agenda concerns only the ME territory.
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what is the israeli's agenda for the middle east then?
i know what God's agenda is for the middle east is as its plainly written throughout all scripture but im intrigued to whether this statement above is meant to suggest that the jews have an agenda that threatens the middle east!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Perhaps I was wrong not to feel threatened by Israel's agenda. I think Gideon Levy is a Jew.
_________________
May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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Stainless
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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Location: Rotherham Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Cove wrote Quote[
Perhaps I was wrong not to feel threatened by Israel's agenda. I think Gideon Levy is a Jew.]
So what if Gideon Levy is a Jew? Ken livingstone is supposed to be English. Before the Lord had mercy on me and opened my eyes I was a hate filled anti establishment left winger who thought communism was the answer. Up the workers revolutionary party and all that.
As far as I can see Israels agenda is survival against a world that would mainly rejoice at its destruction. |
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Sojourner
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Stainless wrote: |
As far as I can see Israels agenda is survival against a world that would mainly rejoice at its destruction. |
That's what I thought too!!!!!
Cov, here is the mission statement of IDF (which you can find at http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=31):
"To defend the existence, territorial integrity and sovereignty of the state of Israel. To protect the inhabitants of Israel and to combat all forms of terrorism which threaten the daily life." |
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keepingthefaith
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Can I ask you 3 questions Cove 1) do you think that Israel is wrong to try and defend itself?
2) what your solution would be Cove?
3) or do you think they should not be in any land at all in that region? |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| keepingthefaith wrote: | Can I ask you 3 questions Cove 1) do you think that Israel is wrong to try and defend itself?
2) what your solution would be Cove?
3) or do you think they should not be in any land at all in that region? |
Israel, as the Old Covenant nation rejected her Messiah & was punished according to the Lord Jesus' Olivet prophecy in AD 70. He made no prophecy of her restoration & return.
| Jacob Prasch wrote: | http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/jesus_in_the_talmud.htm
We will talk about that as we go on, but for now let us look at Revelation 2:9: "I know your tribulation and your poverty, but you are rich; and the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." The message here hearkens back to Romans 2 and to the book of Jeremiah: "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but he is a Jew who is circumcised of heart." Even the Talmud admits that people who are anthropologically or genetically Jews would know their Messiah if they were true Jews, or Jews in heart. Jesus calls this Judaism that rejects its own Messiah a 'synagogue of Satan'. When you pass a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall, it is a place of Satan; when you pass a mosque, that too is a place of Satan; when you go by a Roman Catholic Church, it is a place of Satan; when you pass a Hindu Temple, that is a place of Satan; and no less is a synagogue also a place of Satan.
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Israel is at present a largely secular nation, with what Prasch calls a Satanic religion. In God's purposes, he may yet revive the nation with the Gospel of salvation through Jesus the Messiah. Meanwhile I cannot read any prophetic significance in their presence in the land. I understand the New Covenant Scriptures as teaching the fulfilment of the Old in Jesus. (Luke 24.)
To answer your questions:
1. No. All nations have the right to defend themselves. But I am not convinced that the destruction of Lebanon was defence, nor running Gaza as a prison camp, with reprisals for every offence.
2. National repentance & turning to Jesus, calling on the name of the LORD Jesus Christ.
3. I do not think the Jews have a valid Biblical claim to the land. The Abrahamic territorial promises were fulfilled. The eternal promises remain. They are now in possession by conquest & with western support. Whether they would have more security as a Jewish community in a Moslem or "Christian" country is a matter of conjecture. They have generated much hatred in the Arab world which is overflowing against the west. Lawrence of Arabia could not deliver the hopes he gave the Arabs after the overthrow of the Ottoman Empire.
Further I do not think they can trust the Moslems, who have their own Islamic expansion agenda, yet trust from a position of strength is the best they can hope for. Settlement of the Arab refugees in a territory where they can live in peace would obviously help matters.
Hebrews expresses Abraham's expectation of a heavenly land, aka the New Heaven & New Earth.
Hbr 11:8 ¶ By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.
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13 ¶ These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
_________________
May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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hupernikao
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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cove:
| Quote: | | Israel, as the Old Covenant nation rejected her Messiah & was punished according to the Lord Jesus' Olivet prophecy in AD 70. He made no prophecy of her restoration & return. |
That is of course complete nonsense to those who search the scriptures in regards to your statement that jesus made no reference to the restoration of israel.For it is mentioned by jesus and we have tirelessly pointed out these scriptures.As also had paul the apostle in romans 9-11,some two thousand years before us.Which reminds me didnt paul say that if anyone teaches you things other than what he has shared with the church then dont be sucked in by them?
cove:
| Quote: | | 3. I do not think the Jews have a valid Biblical claim to the land. The Abrahamic territorial promises were fulfilled. The eternal promises remain. |
but there is a God that thinks otherwise and has made it plain to see from HIS WORD.
cove:
| Quote: | | They are now in possession by conquest |
another false statement of yours which you write as though being fact.If Israel was taken by the jews by force then what day did her armies leave all the nation of the earth and invade the land?which year?
Name one nation that once lived in the land that has according to scripture been born in a day? |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1446
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Huper, I must reply on the Covenant Theology thread, qv.
_________________
May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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deleted - now on CT thread
_________________
May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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keepingthefaith
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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God Bless you Cove thanks  |
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