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keepingthefaith
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Covenant your bandying scripture now to suit justification for you way of thinking, I don't think the government of Israel is perfect, anything but, do they make mistakes...plenty, but it doesn't alter my opinion on Gods standing with the Nation and it's people. I feel a complete dislike from you concerning Israel, infact your the first person (Christian) in all my years (58) who thinks as you do (that I have spoken to) but then I grew up in the Plymouth Brethren Assemblies and my Father looked to the Nation of Israel to see Gods hand at work, I to now see it and watch in amazement I wonder why you are blinded to it?  You have more in common with the Jew than you think  |
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jtheb
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1448
Location: second childhood
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | jtheb wrote:
As I was not shooting into USA I would think them less of a danger.
What did you mean by this jtheb? |
I meant that if I was attacking a country I would be less likely to expect them to leave me alone.
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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I believe that as christians[ whether Jew or Gentile] we are now ONE in Christ.
"But you are a chosen people,a royal priesthood,a holy nation,a people belonging to God,that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wondeful light.Once you were not a people,but now you are the people of God,once you had not received mercy,but now you have received mercy.
Dear friends i urge you as aliens and strangers in the world........
1 Peter 2:9.....
We should pray for christians in Israel and for christians in Palestine.Both suffer at the hands of the nation of Israel. Whether one believes that the nation of Israel figures in Gods plans or not, its obvious that at present they are enemies of the gospel,they have rejected the Messiah.They need to hear the gospel,repent and be saved.
Eddie
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | keepingthefaith wrote: | | Covenant your bandying scripture now to suit justification for you way of thinking, I don't think the government of Israel is perfect, anything but, do they make mistakes...plenty, but it doesn't alter my opinion on Gods standing with the Nation and it's people. I feel a complete dislike from you concerning Israel, infact your the first person (Christian) in all my years (58) who thinks as you do (that I have spoken to) but then I grew up in the Plymouth Brethren Assemblies and my Father looked to the Nation of Israel to see Gods hand at work, I to now see it and watch in amazement I wonder why you are blinded to it? You have more in common with the Jew than you think |
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Keepingthefaith,
You should apologise for this post.
Covenantor presents his views in a thoughtful and biblical way. To accuse him of "bandying"scripture is not helpful.
I have never got the impression that he "dislikes" Israel.
It does seem to me that more and more these days one is judged as to whether one accepts that Israel as a nation figures in Gods plans. As i have said before i have an open mind about this, but on a number of ocassions i have been told,or it has been implied, that unless i accept this teaching then i will be cursed by God.
I thought that Jesus was the rock on which we either stand or stumble......not the nation of Israel.
We on this forum whether Jew or Gentile are one in Christ.
Eddie
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One thing i do know.I was blind but now i see. |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| keepingthefaith wrote: | | Covenant your bandying scripture now to suit justification for you way of thinking, |
Excuse me but didn't you do exactly the same in the previous post? |
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Stainless
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Rotherham Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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The government of Israel has not banned Christianity. It is a democracy that allows thwe freedom of religion. There might be iSraelis who oppse Christianity and persecute the Church, but not suprising considering what Israel has suffered by some in the name of Christ.
Are there soldiers within Israel who misuse there power? I'm sure there are. But that would fly in the face of Israeli policy.
The death of anyone and especially children is horrendous and terrible to see regardless of there nationality. I do not believe for one minute that Israel deliberatly targets women and children.
But what about Hamas. Blowing up women and children to get to heaven?
Tell me what freedoms our brother and sisters have in the Muslim nations?
A leader of a wicked organization called the BNP has just been aquited for saying that a certain religion is wicked and evil and I have to agree.
The conflict in the middle east comes down to a war between the God of the bible andd the god of the Koran. I know which God I trust. |
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Poetress wrote: | | Eddie c wrote: | I believe that as christians[ whether Jew or Gentile] we are now ONE in Christ.
"But you are a chosen people,a royal priesthood,a holy nation,a people belonging to God,that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wondeful light.Once you were not a people,but now you are the people of God,once you had not received mercy,but now you have received mercy.
Dear friends i urge you as aliens and strangers in the world........
1 Peter 2:9.....
We should pray for christians in Israel and for christians in Palestine.Both suffer at the hands of the nation of Israel. Whether one believes that the nation of Israel figures in Gods plans or not, its obvious that at present they are enemies of the gospel,they have rejected the Messiah.They need to hear the gospel,repent and be saved.
Eddie |
There are some groups of ultra-orthodox religious Jews in Israel who heavily oppose born-again Christians, particularly those of Jewish ethnicity. This is true. All people from all nations need to hear the gospel of the Messiah, which is the only means by which they can be saved.
| Quote: | | Just to balance your post, please remember that believing and unbelieving Jews also suffer at the hands of Palestinians in Israel, Eddie. Born-again Christians Jewish and Arab/ Palestinian, suffer at the hands of Palestinian Muslims too. |
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Of course they do.
We as christians are to be no part of the world. We look to our heavenly king and our loyalty is to Him,not to any Nation.
Eddie
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One thing i do know.I was blind but now i see. |
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | [quote="Stainless"]The government of Israel has not banned Christianity. It is a democracy that allows thwe freedom of religion. There might be iSraelis who oppse Christianity and persecute the Church, but not suprising considering what Israel has suffered by some in the name of Christ. |
If its not surprising that some Israelis persecute the church[and its not] likewise its not surprising that some Palestinians feel the same about Israel.
| Quote: | Are there soldiers within Israel who misuse there power? I'm sure there are. But that would fly in the face of Israeli policy.
The death of anyone and especially children is horrendous and terrible to see regardless of there nationality. I do not believe for one minute that Israel deliberatly targets women and children. |
With respect i think you are being naive.
| Quote: | But what about Hamas. Blowing up women and children to get to heaven?
Tell me what freedoms our brother and sisters have in the Muslim nations?
A leader of a wicked organization called the BNP has just been aquited for saying that a certain religion is wicked and evil and I have to agree. |
A bomb is a bomb to those who are under it,whether it comes from Hamas or Israel.
We follow the Price of Peace.
As for Nick Griffin, i dont think you want him on your side.
| Quote: | | The conflict in the middle east comes down to a war between the God of the bible andd the god of the Koran. I know which God I trust.[/quote |
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My Lord and Saviour has been rejected by all sides in the Middle East.
Eddie
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One thing i do know.I was blind but now i see. |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1446
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Gazans debate response to killings
| Quote: | Gazans debate response to killings
By Alan Johnston
BBC News, Gaza
The Israeli shells that killed 18 Palestinians in Gaza - mostly women and children - came crashing down on a quiet road called Hamad Street, in the town of Beit Hanoun.
Civilians in Beit Hanoun are at the mercy of Israeli military raids
There is still rubble in the alleyway that was left slick with blood after Wednesday's deadly dawn bombardment, and all around the walls are scarred by shrapnel.
Now, in a clearing behind one of the houses, mourners are gathering in the shade of a huge canopy.
They will remember the dead, and reflect on what their deaths may mean for the world beyond the courtyards of Hamad Street.
The Israelis say their fire was meant for open ground that Palestinian militants have used to launch rockets into a nearby Israeli town.
But the army says a technical error caused the shells to fall short, and plunge into the homes where families were sleeping.
Calls for retaliation
Many Palestinians though will always believe that this was an act of cold-blooded killing. Their leaders have described what happened as a crime and a massacre.
There have been calls for violent retaliation.
The most senior figure in the ruling Hamas movement, Khaled Meshaal said: "Our condemnation will not only be in words, but in actions too. Resistance acts rather than speaks."
Militant leaders have said that Palestinian suicide bombers should strike again at the cities of Israel.
And some of the mourners on Hamad Street agreed. Among them were two Palestinian Authority soldiers, dressed in military fatigues and armed with Kalashnikov rifles.
"Children were sleeping," said one of them. "Bombs killed them while they slept. They had done nothing.
"It's normal to react against the Israelis and the Israeli army by launching missiles and suicide bombing. This we consider a normal reaction to the massacre."
This is the argument of the groups like Islamic Jihad which launch rockets across Gaza's border into Israeli territory almost every day.
They regard not just the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza as occupied territory. In their view, Israel itself sits on stolen Palestinian land and they talk of - ultimately - seeking its destruction.
Divided opinion
Militants often say, however, that their rocket attacks are just retaliation for the Israeli army's very frequent raids, air strikes and killings of Palestinians.
But opinions among the Hamad Street mourners were divided. Not everybody wanted to see a violent response to Wednesday's shelling - despite the horrors they had witnessed.
Palestinians should use their mind carefully... should go to the peace process. We should not stop negotiating with the Israelis because they are pressuring us to lose our control and do unjustified actions against them
Nasser Hamad
An old man called Muhammad Hussein broke down as he talked of the deaths of his sister and other relatives.
"They were all killed - pieces!" he shouted as he wept. "Thrown in pieces. I saw them! I put them in a sack! Eighteen people - they were killed."
But he said there should be no retaliatory suicide bombings.
"I don't like it," he said. "I myself don't like it. I am more than 70 years old. I want to live in peace!"
A much younger man called Nasser Hamad agreed.
"Palestinians should think carefully," he said.
"Palestinians should go to the peace process. We should not stop negotiating with the Israelis because they are pressuring us to lose our control and do unjustified actions against them."
He described suicide bombings as an ineffective tool.
One-sided conflict
Israel's argument is that its people in towns and villages bordering Gaza face a daily threat from missile fire.
It says no nation would tolerate this kind of random bombardment of its civilians, and that its military pressure on Gaza is entirely legitimate self defence.
But Mr Hamad dismissed this.
"This is just an excuse to justify their attacks on Palestinians," he said.
Mr Hamad argued that the rocket fire from Gaza had negligible impact.
"We don't have the capacity to attack Israel with effective arms," he said.
It is true that the missiles are crudely made devices. They very rarely kill, but they do often cause panic and minor injury.
And the casualty figures reveal how very one-sided Gaza's conflict is.
In the past nine days alone around 80 Palestinians have been killed. And altogether, close to 400 have died - many of them civilians - since the Israeli army intensified operations in late June.
Over the same period, on the Israeli side, there have been three deaths. They were all soldiers, and one of them was killed accidentally in friendly fire.
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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1446
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: I have a problem. |
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Many on this forum teach that Israel is back in the promised land in accordance with prophecy. My reading of prophecy teaches that the return will be for blessing, not conflict.
Eze 36:22 ¶ Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Hsa 3:4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and [without] teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
BUT those who believe prophecy is presently being fulfilled also believe that Israel will continue in unbelief until after the rapture of all Christians, the tribulation, Armageddon, etc, & will only repent & acknowledge their true Messiah when he returns to inaugurate the millennium.
Does that mean that we can & should expect the "problems" in the region to continue until the rapture, that there will be neither peace nor national salvation for Jerusalem & the Israelis before the rapture.
Does it therefore mean that as Christians we should see the great commission to Jews, Moslems, Hindus, British, etc, as our imperative so that in no way do we treat any ethnic group as "special" but only acknowledge believers of all nations as the people of God.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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