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"The Charismatic Gifts and Cessationism."

 
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Covenanter



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1456

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: "The Charismatic Gifts and Cessationism." Reply with quote

Did anyone else see the debate on Revelation TV last night?
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bobbyc



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1367

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. Could you summarise it for us?
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Covenanter



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My email to Angus Stewart - whose Covenant Reformed notes I have been receiving for years.

Ian wrote:
Charismaticism Debate:
Rev. Angus Stewart will debate Pastor David Antwi on Revelation TV, in London, at 9-11 pm (British time) on Thursday, 27 September, on "The Charismatic Gifts and Cessationism."

The debate can be watched from 9-11 pm (British time):
(1) live on satellite TV (SKY Digital Channel 772); or
(2) on the internet (http://genesistv.tv/ and wait approximately 30 seconds before the live programme starts).

I watched on the internet.

My comments:
Quote:

Interesting debate, but I think it was inconclusive. I hold the
cessationist position, & of course allow God to perform healing & other
miracles, give prophetic warnings & encouragements as he wills, but not
through "gifted" ministries as are rife in the Pentecostal & Charismatic
movement.

I emailed the programme:
Quote:
"1 Cor 13:8 ff A separate word is used for TONGUES ceasing, distinct from
prophecy & knowledge. The reason for tongues was a witness against
unbelieving Israel. (1 Cor. 14:21-22, quoting Isaiah 28.) At Pentecost,
many heard the wonderful works of God. Others dismissed the tongues as
drunken babbling. After the judgement on Israel in AD 70. Tongue gifts
cease. Their purpose is finished.

Other gifts & miracles may occur today according to the Holy Spirit's will
for his purposes, but NOT as gifts routinely given as taught by
Charismatics & Pentecostals, or claimed in their healing meetings. The
Holy Spirit does not work to our orders."

The protagonists for "tongues" tend to be influenced by their experience,
rather than Scripture.

Your (Angus) argument centred on your specific interpretation of Scripture, but I
felt it was not clear enough to convince.

Amazing that they managed to bring "end times" & "replacement theology"
into the dsicussion.

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davelarge



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cov, I share your skepticism of some 'prophetic healing ministries', but I wonder, is there a connection between what you describe as "gifts & miracles may occur[ing] today according to the Holy Spirit's will for his purposes" and the people through which the Holy Spirit chooses to work?

What I mean is, when the Spirit heals someone, does He generally use the same people to work through? If so, it could be interpreted as a 'healing ministry'.

Dave
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Covenanter



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

davelarge wrote:
Cov, I share your skepticism of some 'prophetic healing ministries', but I wonder, is there a connection between what you describe as "gifts & miracles may occur[ing] today according to the Holy Spirit's will for his purposes" and the people through which the Holy Spirit chooses to work?

What I mean is, when the Spirit heals someone, does He generally use the same people to work through? If so, it could be interpreted as a 'healing ministry'.

Dave


If he did it could. One needs medically attested statistical evidence. I tend though to think that miraculous healings are "one-offs" in an extraordinary situation to confirm conversion & to show the new convert that Jesus is "real" - that his new faith is a living faith in a living God.
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davelarge



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so do I interpret you correctly that your scepticism is more about the claim of each individual healing, rather than whether a particular individual has a 'ministry'?
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Covenanter



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

davelarge wrote:
OK, so do I interpret you correctly that your scepticism is more about the claim of each individual healing, rather than whether a particular individual has a 'ministry'?


What I reject is healing campaigns, altar calls for healing, big names who claim gifts, etc, whose ministry is not Christ centred, health & wealth ministries, etc. Instant healings are claimed but never followed up medically, but never result in cures for blindness, AIDS, cancer, diabetes, or anything else chronic. Meeting euphoria takes the mind off the symptoms, which return next day.

What I am prepared to believe is permanent individual healing as a result of prayer at conversion, of unlearned people rising to the occasion to speak a powerful word, of hatred turning to love, joyful testimony through terminal illness, lives changed by believing the Gospel, etc.
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jtheb



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of truth in your comments Cov."Healing" campaigns are all too often hupe.

I do want add, however, that I know a dematologist who has frequent healings.

Also I was listening to a doctor at a conference who told us of an AIDS patient whose T lymphocyte count had recovered and was showing no deterioration a year later.
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