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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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Location: Manchester
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 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
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And of course the Saints had no secret sins?. I thought the bible described all christians as saints.
Strange how we often hear it said...."just read the bible". Imagine someone picking up the bible and say reading `Judges`. The might think they were reading about a group of bloodthirsty savages.
The gospel of John is that which is often recommended to enquirers and look at how difficult that is in the other thread. A small booklet explaing bible history and chronology is needed.
The Jehovahs witnesses are quite good at this. I still have to hand a good book called "All Scripture Is Inspired Of God And Is Beneficial". It has chapters like
TIME AND THE HOLY SCRIPTURES
MEASURING EVENTS IN THE STREAM OF TIME
THE BIBLE AND ITS CANON
Each book is explained in that we are told the author..when written...time covered etc.
Now i am not recommending this book,its also full of falsehoods about the Watchtower,but the idea is good,and for someone like me who knew nothing about the bible it taught me a lot. Just reading the bible is imo,difficult. Who-where-when-why are important.
I also have some weighty books from christian sources that are similiar. A small booklet with each Bible would help people to know just what they are reading.
Then the fun would start as to what it means.
Eddie
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Eddie c wrote: | | And of course the Saints had no secret sins?. I thought the bible described all christians as saints. |
It is not a case of being without sin, of course, but of living a life of faith in Christ. If someone habitually commits sin, such as those written about Schofield, then we can certainly cast doubts upon their faith in Christ. If we are saved for good works, then those good works should be visible (salt and light). As for the Saints having "secret sins", I don't think so. They would have "confessed their sins to each other" before taking communion, as we all should. Another example of scripture being defined through the lives of the saints.
| Eddie c wrote: | | The gospel of John is that which is often recommended to enquirers and look at how difficult that is in the other thread. A small booklet explaing bible history and chronology is needed. |
That's useful. I wouldn't reccomend the Bible to non-believers at all in fact, except the synoptic Gospels. Christ's disciples were told to preach the good news to all nations and that is, literally, the Gospels. After coming to faith the meaning of the Bible opens up more clearly (but not compeltely clearly). John was written after the other Gospels in part as a reaction to them and to fill in some of the "gaps" in the others. This is perhaps why it is a little more confusing, though I know at least one of my Christian friends, a Chinese girl, who came to faith through reading John's gospel.
| Quote: | | There are of course areas where this does not hold - e.g. infant baptism & church hierarchy. |
An arbitary distinction in my view 
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davelarge
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| -theophilus- wrote: | | I wouldn't reccomend the Bible to non-believers at all in fact, except the synoptic Gospels. |
I was going to say much the same thing. Personally, I think I'd recommend Mark or Luke as the narratives are strongest in those books.
| -theophilus- wrote: | | ...though I know at least one of my Christian friends, a Chinese girl, who came to faith through reading John's gospel. |
I can't provide evidence for this, but I think I once heard that of any single book in the Bible, John's gospel was the one that accounted for the most conversions.
davelarge
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Eddie,
My basic NIV has all that included at the end.
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It is not a case of being without sin, of course, but of living a life of faith in Christ. If someone habitually commits sin, such as those written about Schofield, then we can certainly cast doubts upon their faith in Christ. If we are saved for good works, then those good works should be visible (salt and light). As for the Saints having "secret sins", I don't think so. They would have "confessed their sins to each other" before taking communion, as we all should. Another example of scripture being defined through the lives of the saints. |
Theo,
many non-christians show good works..... and many christians do good works which are done in secret. As to whether those who are classified as `saints`by a church would do as you say...how do we know?.
| Quote: | | That's useful. I wouldn't reccomend the Bible to non-believers at all in fact, except the synoptic Gospels. Christ's disciples were told to preach the good news to all nations and that is, literally, the Gospels. After coming to faith the meaning of the Bible opens up more clearly (but not compeltely clearly). John was written after the other Gospels in part as a reaction to them and to fill in some of the "gaps" in the others. This is perhaps why it is a little more confusing, though I know at least one of my Christian friends, a Chinese girl, who came to faith through reading John's gospel. |
I too have heard of people,say prisoners and of course others who have come to faith as a result of picking up a bible. We cant limit God.
Eddie
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="Covenanter"]Eddie,
My basic NIV has all that included at the end.[/quote |
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Thats good Cov.
My NIV has a little info not be enough.
Take the Book of Acts. It covers a period of about thirty years. It would be good to know how many years have passed between different events. For instance the events recorded in ch 10 occur some eight?years after Pentecost. There is a reason why this is important.
I guess the answer is that we need to study.
Eddie
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jtheb
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that John is profound, but it is used in a number of conversions.
I had a friend who was in his first year at university.
He had no interest in God.
He had a m/c accident and lost a leg.
While in hosp he read the gideon bible in his cabinet.
He became a christian through that.
God's word is very powerful.
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| -theophilus- wrote: | That's useful. I wouldn't reccomend the Bible to non-believers at all in fact, except the synoptic Gospels. Christ's disciples were told to preach the good news to all nations and that is, literally, the Gospels. After coming to faith the meaning of the Bible opens up more clearly (but not compeltely clearly). John was written after the other Gospels in part as a reaction to them and to fill in some of the "gaps" in the others. This is perhaps why it is a little more confusing, though I know at least one of my Christian friends, a Chinese girl, who came to faith through reading John's gospel.
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That sounds very "catholic." The church understands the Bible, the laity can't. Its a dangerous book. The dreadful possibility is that readers might understand it, & start a Reformation. They might realise that the established religion is to maintain priestly & hierarchical privilege rather than build the church of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I heard of a Russian who visited a Christian book stall looking for a Bible. He bought the smallest & cheapest book he could find - Jonah. The stall holder was sad - whatever will he make of the incredible whale story?
Next week the man came back praising a God who would forgive repentant sinners!
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jtheb
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: |
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I am glad it is no longer a capital offence to possess a bible in this country.
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Covenanter
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Theo,
I understand that the Orthodox make much of the Holy Spirit, yet it seems they do not trust him to teach believers who read the Word he has inspired what it means.
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davelarge
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| jtheb wrote: | | I am glad it is no longer a capital offence to possess a bible in this country. |
But there is still institutionalised denominational discrimination. The monarch is not permitted to be Catholic, for example. I think that the bishops who sit in the Lords are only from the CofE (but I'll happily be corrected on that if I'm wrong, and I'm also aware that the strong chance is that there'll be no bishops at all before too long!)
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jtheb
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Is that good or bad?
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Covenanter wrote: |
That sounds very "catholic." The church understands the Bible, the laity can't. |
When did I ever say that? I never even made the distinction between the clergy and the laity (the "church" being both of them) as you seem to suggest I am doing. The distinction I was making was between Christians and non-Christians.
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Eddie c wrote: | Theo,
many non-christians show good works..... and many christians do good works which are done in secret. As to whether those who are classified as `saints`by a church would do as you say...how do we know?. |
How do we know the saints took communion and confessed sins? It's a matter of history, their lives are recorded. We don't, of course, know what sins they confessed.
It is true that many Christians do good works in secret, but often the truth comes out in the end - though this is often many years after their repose.
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davelarge
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| jtheb wrote: | | Is that good or bad? |
Is what good or bad?
To try and cover all the bases, on the whole I don't like institutionalised discrimination of any kind, and I believe in the separation of church and state.
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