Death penalty

Nancy · Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 1095 Location: Illinois, U.S.A.

As you all know, in the U.S. the court system allows the death penalty as a sentence for a trial by jury.

As a Christian I have a difficult time in accepting this. Didn't Jesus admonish us to love one another + to repay evil with good?

Don't know if it's made the news by you about the Browns Chicken murders.
Browns Chicken was a fast food restaurant. About 14 years ago at least 7 people were murdered there at closing time. They were all shot horribly, then put in the walk in freezer.

The case has finally gone to court for one of the suspects. At the end of the trial the jurors were sequestered to vote on a sentence(punishment) for this man. Only one person voted against the death penalty, so now this man accused of murder is sentenced to life in prison. I don't know if parole is an option at this point. Another suspect is awaiting trial in this also.

This brought to mind for me the recent poll on another thread re: Christians + voting. I guess it really does make a difference after all. Just one single vote was enough to keep a human being murdered by others.
I am in no way condoning the first act of senseless murder.
I'll bet the person who voted against the death penalty was a Christian.
Maybe we can make a difference after all. God will ultimately judge + pass sentence to us all in His time.

Does your court system have the death penalty?
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watcher · Joined: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 60

I agree with you, Nancy. I also believe that a Christian should not condone the death penalty and it is all too sad that George Bush, a supposed 'born-again' Christian, could sign so many death warrants when he was governor of Texas.
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Paul · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 50

On the contrary. Christians should support the death penalty for murder, because it is biblical.

Note that I am not referring to the Mosaic death penalties. Those death penalties were for all sorts of crimes that we would not accept death for now, because we are not under the Mosaic covenant. Therefore the passages in the Law prescribing the death penalty for adultery, homosexuality or disrepect for parents, do not apply directly, but remind us how seriously God views such sins.

However, the death penalty for murder predates the Mosaic covenant. It is found in Genesis chapter 9, and is therefore part of the common order of things required for all mankind.

It is no coicidence that, in the UK, the abolition of the death penalty happened in the same era as the legalisation of homosexuality and abortion. It was all part of the UK becoming more godless.

George Bush was acting in accord with his Christian faith as a born-again Christian when he signed execution warrants. Any Christian politician who respects the Bible should support the death penalty. Note that Bill Clinton always supported the death penalty, both as governor of Arkansas and as President.

bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1324

Two questions Paul.
1. What exactly constitutes

jtheb · Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 1448 Location: second childhood

I agree with Paul that the Noahic regulations are still controling the secular world.

I am not in favour of the death penalty as one can often be uncertain of the accuracy of the verdict.

Where there is NO DOUBT, death is justice. I favour MERCY. Icon_1435

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bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1324

Well John perhaps you can elaborate on what the Noahic regulations actually are.

jtheb · Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 1448 Location: second childhood

bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1324

Significantly though it is after those verses that God actually declares His covenant (promise) that never again will he destroy the earth with a flood. What you have quoted comes from God's blessing (providential gift) to Noah and his family man shall now have dominion over all creatures. Not for the first time God showed that His judgement is tempered by mercy. Having clothed Adam and Eve following their transgression He now provides for Noah's family by placing them (and the next stage of humankind) over the animals that will now provide food for them. If that truly is the Noahic covenant to which Paul refers then I believe his stance to be based on a false premise.

Sisyphus · Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject:

I agree with Paul and JtheB on this. What are commonly called the Universal Noahide Laws, apply to anyone who is not either a Jew or a Christian.

The 7 Laws are not just garnered from Genesis, but also Deuteronomy, Leviticus and other parts of the Torah.

The universal Law contains seven more or less general commandments, as follows:

1. a broad prohibition against Idolatry.
2. a Broad positive injunction, a command to pursue earthly Justice.

There are then 5 prohibitions regarding.

3. the profanation of Gods name.
4. murder.
5. theft.
6. sexual immorality; and
7. dietary perversions, or cruelty to lesser animals.

These are the basis of a further 300 plus ( I don't remember the correct number of the top of my head, sorry), rules and regulations that stem from and expand upon the above 7 laws.

It should be noted that for Israel, there are, as we know, a further 3 laws making the ten commandments which are expanded out to many more 100's of rules and requirements....

For the Christians there are but two, but I would suggest that the universal laws are universal and apply even to us if we are to have a chance of being a decent human being.
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".... love thy neighbour as thyself." is the hardest thing I have ever done....

bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1324

Sisyphus · Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:

bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1324

I've been doing a spot of investigation today into Noahides and frankly I'm left a bit baffled. On the one hand Noahides appear to be non-Jews and yet they appeal to Hebrew scriptures, Midrash and the Torah. They do not condone conversion from any other faith but they still see Jews as bound by the Abrahamic covenant as God's chosen people and much of their 'theology' has substantial Jewish roots. It would appear that Noahides 'ought' to be people who leave other religions in order to revert back to a relationship with God that has not developed (or ignores the development) in the way that either Judaism, Christianity or even Islam has. One further thing that puzzles me is why Paul appears to believe that Christians (and presumably Jews and Muslims) should adhere to the Noahic covenant as well as ones that came later. If one is going to live by Noahic principles then Noahides would (apparently) say that adherence to Judaism, Islam or Christianity is not necessary yet Paul seems to be suggesting that Christians at least should follow two codes.

Sisyphus · Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject:

Much of what you say is correct Bobby. The Noahide strives to be the Righteous Gentile. They are often very bitter people though I have found, being self imposed outcasts from other religions, predominantly Christianity.

Going into class now but will pick this up another time. Cheers.
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".... love thy neighbour as thyself." is the hardest thing I have ever done....