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angel
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 4751
Location: essex
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 Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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How God Still Loves Us is Beyond me.
But He Does.
Praise Him He is So Good. |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't seen watcher's posts because they were deleted earlier but I'd hazard a guess that they were in response to what Paul had written. I also see that Cov has cogently responded to said posting and for myself I would only add that this statement | Quote: | | A literal belief in the Bible is not necessary for salvation. It is, however, an obvious sign of salvation, |
seems somewhat contradictory. Given Paul's position as a literalist I'm curious to know what else (if anything) he perceives as "an obvious sign of salvation" for those of us who are not literalists. Since I disavow both literalism and the signs and wonders gifts (tongues, prophecy etc) I'm left wondering which parts of my own faith Paul and his ilk would accept as genuine. In Paul's comment about people continually refusing to accept Christian truth being spiritually suspect he is, of course, only being suspicious of those who do not adhere to what he sees as Christian truth. There is still the possibility that for all his adamancy he is in fact himself in error. |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Having been in a very controlling religion even though this was some time ago where we had to accept their truths,and if you disagreed it would be like disagreeing with God.I know question everything If I am uneasy with some things.This can come across to others as doubting.But I have no doubts about the Lord.Just various teachings/ interpretations/ teachers etc:
Some people are more accepting of this than others.
I think even though we believe the Bible to be true,we don't all understand everything,and we have to have common sense as well else we would be chopping of hands and plucking out eyes. |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Not everyone has read the Bible but have heard others preach about Jesus and have become believers.Brother Yuns Mother was illiterate yet she became the first preacher in her village just look what has happened since then.Bibles were hard to come by in China.
Was it MLJ who said if you dont believe in creation you are not a Christian?(cant remember?) |
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Eddie c
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Covenanter wrote: | | Paul wrote: | Of course, it is possible to be saved and have wrong ideas.
Out of your own mouth ...
However, when the truth of scripture is continually pointed out, and a person refuses to accept it, and to repent of their former position, there has to be something deeply spiritually wrong.
That is a divisive theological argument. People were burnt at the stake for not accepting the truth of Scriture that the church was built on Peter, & that the elements of the mass became the body & blood of Christ, etc.
There is basic saving truth - Christ, who is the Way the Truth & the Life, but there is plenty of scope for ignorance, much of which is dispelled after salvaton over a mater of a lifetime.
The important theological reasons for rejecting both evolutionism and old earth creationism have been rehearsed here many times. There comes a point where one has to say that the continued rejection of biblical truth becomes disobedience to God. A literal belief in the Bible is not necessary for salvation. It is, however, an obvious sign of salvation,
Theological reasons are not necessarily Biblical truth. The prophetic Scriptures are theologically argued both as literal truth, & as symbolic truth relating to the Kingdom of the Lord Jesus, beginning with his resurrection.
and if it is not present, then I have to say it is incumbent on us to question that salvation, not to be awkward, but out of concern for the individual concerned. What benefit is there in buttering someone up, and persuading them that they really are saved, if they actually end up lost? Where would be the love in that position?
How much of Scripture do we have to believe to be saved? Is, "I am a lost sinner, I repent of my sin & believe in Jesus Christ, Lord & God, who died to save me" enough?
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Well said Cov.
We are saved as a result of whom we know,not what we know.
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One thing i do know.I was blind but now i see. |
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 562
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Nicely summed up Eddie
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ICXC NIKA! |
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keepingthefaith
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We are saved as a result of whom we know,not what we know. |
Exactly, it's not knowledge that gets us to Heaven or even saves us, we can know it all (in the head) but it's keeping it in the heart that matters and never letting it go and this can only be done through accepting Christ as your Saviour and Lord, the old man gone, and walking in/with Christ....daily. Putting on the 'new man'
Hebrews4:12-13
For the Word of God it is quick and it is powerful and sharper than any two edged swored, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intenets of the heart.
130 neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight; but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
140 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession |
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maria
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Love God and your neighbor. |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I've just started reading a book called The Radical Evangelical (Seeking A Place To Stand) by Dr Nigel Wright. The book was written in 1996 when Dr Wright was Senior Pastor at Altrincham Baptist Church, Cheshire. He had previously been a Lecturer in Christian Doctrine at Spurgeon's College in London.
In the book Dr Wright makes the argument that the only doctrine that needs to be considerd as binding is a belief in the Trinity. I shall let him speak for himself - | Quote: | | The doctrine of the Trinity provides the foundation for al other Christian doctrines. Traditionally evangelicals have made particular doctrines such as biblical infallibility, penal substitution and eternal judgement the boundaries between 'sound' and 'unsound' theology. I have argued that the proper 'centre stage' is the trinitarian doctrine of God, and all other aspects radiate from this centre. |
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VictoriaPlum
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 718
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh! I read that book some years ago, it was extremely interesting, or so I thought at the time. I will have to look it out and re-read it, if I still have it. |
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watcher
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bobbyc wrote: | I've just started reading a book called The Radical Evangelical (Seeking A Place To Stand) by Dr Nigel Wright. The book was written in 1996 when Dr Wright was Senior Pastor at Altrincham Baptist Church, Cheshire. He had previously been a Lecturer in Christian Doctrine at Spurgeon's College in London.
In the book Dr Wright makes the argument that the only doctrine that needs to be considerd as binding is a belief in the Trinity. I shall let him speak for himself - | Quote: | | The doctrine of the Trinity provides the foundation for al other Christian doctrines. Traditionally evangelicals have made particular doctrines such as biblical infallibility, penal substitution and eternal judgement the boundaries between 'sound' and 'unsound' theology. I have argued that the proper 'centre stage' is the trinitarian doctrine of God, and all other aspects radiate from this centre. |
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Quite so, Bob. As that arch-trinitarian D'Artagnan once said, "One for all and all for one."
Seriously though, that would seem to me to be the essential touchstone of authentic Christian belief, too. All else stems from this once and for all revealed truth about the real nature of God. The pieces in the puzzle might be moved around in varying configurations, but this is the immovable piece which remains at the centre and around which the rest - as Wright says - radiate.
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"For with Thee is the fountain of life;
In Thy light we see light."
- Psalm 36:9 |
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Covenanter
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1446
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder .... to what extent the heroes of faith as listed in Hebrews 11 believed in the Trinity.
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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21) |
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bobbyc
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see how they could Cov since as OT figures they pre-existed both Christ's incarnation and the outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost. Furthermore they could not remotely be perceived as Christians and the Trinity is definitely a Christian doctrine. I don't believe Wright means that only a belief in the Trinity is necessary for salvation but more that accepting the doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation stone of being a Christian.
That these heroes of faith are reckoned as saved before the events of Calvary though does open up some other quite interesting issues. Perhaps another thread beckons. |
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