Local CofE

angel · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 4751 Location: essex

I was Amazed to see the Vicar of a Local CofE Church Sitting outside a Mini mart With a Table and Plackard asking for Donations to the Roof restoration Fund. Icon_swoon

I cannot Understand WHY! every year they are having to Beg for Repairs Icon_1435

Our Church Building is Just as Big Though not as grand, and we have half the Congregation, yet we manage to get a new Kitchen, New Toilets, New Parition Doors, new Flat roof, sound equipment, walls etc etc and its all by the Grace of God [if you see our Treasures report we are always just scraping by].

Should our Vicars, Reverands, Ministers, Pastors be out on the street Begging.................

This to me is a bad witness, IMHO.

I tried talking to Him and he Just Grunted and asked me to sign his clip-board with my donation on it. [well I couldnt just walk by, could I]

What do others Think.

I may be very Naive, in my thinking, But this is troubeling me.
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bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1363

You don't say what part of Essex you're in angel or how big/old the church in question is. It's a fact though that almost every church faces major costs for repair and renewal which can only very rarely be met by the contributions of members. My own local parish church has just agreed to sell its delapidated church hall so that roof repairs can be undertaken. The hall is being sold for redevelopment and new housing will be built on the land. Despite the fact that the building has long been in a state of disrepair and has hardly ever been used for several years its sale has aroused some controversy in the town. Keeping the hall (but still not being able to use it) would mean that the church would have had to ask for financial help from the community to pay for roof repairs. The alternatives to asking for public support would seem to be to let the building go to rack and ruin or deliberately demolish it and replace it with something more modern and perhaps not in keeping with the immediate area. If the church is a listed building then that brings with it more red tape I believe so it's not always as simple as things might appear.

angel · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 4751 Location: essex

Bobby, I Live in Brentwood in Essex.
I dont know enough about Church Buildings only that this particular One is always asking for money, It is our parish Church and it looks in good Nick.
Last year they Had a New Stain Glass window Put in, this year its the Roof what will it be next year.
I worry about the comment I heard from a women waiting outside the shop "Money Grabbing ******* What about the Poor Kids" Etc etc.

Should This be the right way to use the Vicars Time?

Our Pastor is to Busy visiting the Sick, in the schools and running around doing things in the community, as Im sure the sitting Vicar would prefer to be doing, Bless Him.

bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1363

I don't know if this is the church in question angel but this information from its website is pertinent enough I think. I have removed the name of the church in case it isn't the one you mean.

Elaine · Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 1712 Location: Derbyshire

Having been on the governing body for our parish church a few times, I may be able to give some insight.

Every 5 years CofE churches undergo a diocese inspection called a quinquenial.

This looks at the general state of the church, and recommends repairs that need to be done in order of importance and urgency.

A large percentage of CofE buildings are listed. Any repairs or upkeep have to take this into account ( eg.one church wants to take out the pews but the Georgian buliding preservation thingy body are saying the pews can only be replaced with a certain type of chair. These just happen to be the most expensive, and are not very comfortable or practical.)

All local CofE churches have to pay what is commonly called "The Parish share", this is based on the size of the parish (among other things). It is a requirement. Our parish church pays around £25,000 pa. Apart from the stipend paid to the vicar and any other wages (curate etc) any other money paid from the diocese to a local church is usually a loan. The individual churches are responsible for repairs, payments to other workers, running cost etc. A lot of churches are falling into debt.

Do I agree with this vicar begging outside of shops. Not really. There are other ways to raise money and awareness.
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bobbyc · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 1363

The vicar isn't begging and the church has very likely also been using

crystal · Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 308

I wonder how else this money can be raised?
I do not know which of the Brentwood churches you are talking about as from memory when I visited there are a few. But most of them were old and would cost a lot for upkeep. I wonder angel is your church old like their's or do you have a new church that would be cheaper to run?
I am not saying a vicar outside a shop is the best way to deal with raising money, but I do think that he shows initiative to actually go out into his parish and let people know that if they want to keep the church then they must help maintain it. After all if it is one of the pretty ones in the area then I bet they have a queue of people wanting to marry there for the nice pictures.
By the way the reason I know the area is that when I was a child my grandparents lived just outside of Brentwood, so I remember it from when I used to stay with them.

Talitha Tetelestai · Guest

I thought the CofE was fairly well off?

Perhaps not so much in fluid cash, but in property terms etc?

crystal · Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 308

Elaine · Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 1712 Location: Derbyshire

I'm not sure how well off the CofE in "National" terms, but I know that most local churches (with exceptions of course) are not well off at all.

There are all sorts of ways to fundraise, but there seems (in our area at least) to be an attitude that the first port of call is the congregations (rightly so) the second is grants.

Whatever happened to working to fill the need?

At one time churches were always holding fetes, jumble sales etc. but this seems to have gone out of fashion. When I used to organise a fun day once a year, I was told that it was "bad taste" to allow a jumble stall, even though this was for another charity.

For some reason, some people seem to think that "the church is always begging for money", whether they are or not. Sitting outside shops asking shoppers for support just serves to back up this belief. So as a means of fundraising, it's not the best idea.

Having said that, I respect that vicar for actually doing something. Many of the vicars I know wouldn't dream of doing it. They have congregations to do that for them.
_________________
God put me on this earth to do a number of things.
Right now I'm so far behind I'll live forever!!!!!

angel · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 4751 Location: essex

Wow Thanks For all Your Input.

Bobby could you pm me the addy of that church you found, Please.

Elaine £25,000 a year is a bit steep. Icon_swoon

The Vicar Is the source of a lot of Ridicule in this Area. Icon_sad

The Church Is The Ugliest In the Whole of Essex, Nobody wants to Get Wed there, Yet Inside its Beautiful. Icon_fing05

I Go to a Church That is Only 30ish years old.

I expect The Vicar is Doing what he can, though I Believe he needs To learn People skills.

Elaine · Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 1712 Location: Derbyshire

£25,000 is only the average in this area Angel. Some churches are expected to cough up the best part of £50,000. Icon_sad

I'm glad I'm not making decisions about this kind of stuff anymore, it's not easy.
_________________
God put me on this earth to do a number of things.
Right now I'm so far behind I'll live forever!!!!!

jtheb · Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 1451 Location: second childhood

Not being Cof E it is difficult to comment.

The CofE seems to have plenty of property.

Us poor non conformist have to find the money from our members usually.
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crystal · Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 308

Patjoseph55 · Joined: 09 Apr 2007 Posts: 17 Location: Kettering

Fact is most old churches are completely unsuitable for the task they need to fulfill, so why not sell them for conversions, and build purpose built church buildings where we need to be. Infact some of the most Alive fellowships I know of have no permanant building at all. I know of one here in kettering that is selling up and moving to a shared community hall and using the proceds for mission.

Radical? Icon_wink

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While women weep as they do now, I’ll fight; while little children go hungry as they do now, I’ll fight; while there remains one dark soul without the light of God, I’ll fight—I’ll fight to the very end.
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