2 Thessalonians 2

Covenanter · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1446

Maria asked for a thread on this.

There is a tendency to view Biblical prophecy as future for our times also, whereas its fulfilment may be complete in Bible times, particularly relating to the Lord Jesus. (Luke 24:25-32, 44ff.)

A particular point of contention is the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. We all agree on 490 years, but some see the final week as yet future.

We will disagree on this thread, but hopefully we will understand each other's reasoning, & appreciate their Scriptural integrity. I'm nice - honest Icon_th_6

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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21)

Covenanter · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1446

I think we need to take both letters together, as both deal with the second coming of Christ. It is understood that together they are Paul's first letters, written from Corinth.

Throughout the first letter, Paul writes of the Christian expectation of the coming of Christ, going into great detail in chapters 4 & 5.

Clearly the Thessalonians were suffering persecution, & needed encouragement. As Jeremiah says, hope & a future.
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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21)

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

Sorry if we are going to disagree.I have not read everything on this forum and am hopless with numbers.

2:2 talks about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.

Can anyone explain verse 4?
Thanks.

keepingthefaith · Guest

2Thess 2;4 Speaks of the Antichrist

Covenanter · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1446

2 Thessalonians 2

I think we need to take both letters together, as both deal with the second coming of Christ. It is understood that together they are Paul's first letters, written from Corinth.

Throughout the first letter, Paul writes of the Christian expectation of the coming of Christ, going into great detail in chapters 4 & 5.

Clearly the Thessalonians were suffering persecution, & needed encouragement. As Jeremiah says, hope & a future.

Obviously we can’t consider the whole of 8 chapters in detail, but we will start with 1 Thess. 2:13-20. This deals with the experience of persecution for Christ’s sake.
13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe. For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.

17 But we, brethren, having been taken away from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured more eagerly to see your face with great desire. Therefore we wanted to come to you--even I, Paul, time and again--but Satan hindered us. For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming? For you are our glory and joy.

The suffering of the Thessalonians at the hands of their countrymen is compared with that of the Christians in Judaea. Paul alludes to the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 23. The Jews of that generation will be judged for their rejection of their Messiah.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. . . . 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

In chapter 4, Paul reassures his readers that they will be vindicated when Jesus descends for them, & even the dead will be raised to be with their Lord for ever. This teaching continues into the next chapter to show that the wicked will be judged at that coming. Paul concludes the section:
5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. 11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

There would appear to be misunderstandings, so Paul writes again to make it clear that there is a final judgement, when believers are vindicated & those who oppose & persecute & punished.
2 Thess. 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
This judgement will not take place before another event – the rebellion, & possibly another coming.
2 Thess. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

It is extraordinary that the Thessalonians should think they have missed the day of the Lord. They could not possibly think they had missed the “shout, the voice of the archangel, & the trumpet of God.”

What was Paul (or someone else?) teaching that could give them that impression?
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May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21)

Sisyphus · Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject:

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

sis,

I have heard some say the Pope,some say a political man.some say a false messiah?whoever it will be I dont know.

Sisyphus · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:04 am Post subject:

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

Yes it is true that he will be loved -- anti-Christ means "in place of Christ", not "against Christ" as the modern meaning of "anti-" would have us believe. The Anti-Christ may well not appear to be openly hostile to Christ, but he will try to replace Him.
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ICXC NIKA!

keepingthefaith · Guest

A good place to read about all concerning the antichrist his work his names his job etc
http://www.biblebelievers.com/Pink/antichrist01.htm

-theophilus- · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 562

I'm not really interested in the anti-Christ to be honest. I don't think it is healthy to focus on knowing his identity as it won't benefit us or change the outcome in anyway.
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ICXC NIKA!

keepingthefaith · Guest

It wasn't his identity as such Theo or a named person only the names the Bible calls him was what I was looking at ie, 'the lawless one'..'the man of sin' etc, etc.
It doesn't come across my mind either what he maybe called or infact who he maybe, because i hope to be raptured to meet the Lord in the air while the Tribulation unfolds Icon_biggrin

maria · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 527

Theo
You are probably right,But I had been sent Info and videos from christians all claiming this and that.It can be very confusing especially when one is trying to adjust to a new world having been indoctrinated for so long.This is my main worry for people not just myself .One lady ex Jw I knew became ill with all the Christian info she had been given.Biily Graham,WOF,rapture,Dave Hunt,freemasons RCC.,David Icke,etc:etc: at the moment she is an atheist.

Same for an ex JW Elder and P.O.I knew,and many more stories like this.

Covenanter · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1446

2 Thess. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

It is extraordinary that the Thessalonians should think they have missed the day of the Lord. They could not possibly think they had missed the “shout, the voice of the archangel, & the trumpet of God.”

What else were the Apostles teaching that might have left the Thessalonians confused - after all, they had too little time to ask questions about what Paul had taught, & he had not been able to make a follow up visit. John was concerned to warn his readers about the antichrist, & refers to many antichrists. Most commentators believe that Paul also is warning about the antichrist when he refers to the man of lawlessness. John goes into detail, stressing that his readers were living in the last hour.

1 John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist— he denies the Father and the Son.
23 No-one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is what he promised us— even eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit— just as it has taught you, remain in him.

We could say that there are many antichrists in our day, but that would make the urgent warnings of John vague & almost meaningless if his last hour extends for 2,000 years. Hora is not used in that general sense that hemera is. (last days) Have they something more immediate to warn their readers of? Something about to happen?

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

The glorious coming of the Lord Jesus for resurrection & vindication of his saints, & the destruction of his enemies, as described in 2 Thess. 1, & previously in 1 Thess. 4 & 5 will not happen before the man of lawlessness, aka antichrist, takes his place in the temple of God. The temple of God was still standing, but was under sentence of destruction within a generation of the sentence passed on it by the Lord Jesus Christ in his Olivet prophecy. We should consider whether the Apostles were writing of the imminent fulfilment of that prophecy.
_________________
May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will ... (Hebrews 13:20-21)

Covenanter · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1446