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keepingthefaith
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 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: |
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5 hours long? what passage of scripture did they get that from?
| Quote: | | There is nothing in the the Gospels to suggest He and the Apostles celebrated it informally, or did away with any of the tradition involved. |
The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, 'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.
It was a spiritual meaning that Christ had for the bread and wine,,physical eyes could see the glory of the temple made of stone. His spiritual eyes were more interested in the spiritual temple made of flesh and blood.
The earthly temple was given to the Romans to destroy. The heavenly temple would endure for ever. Even the great Passover festival and the other great feasts were nothing more than shadows of their greater spiritual counterparts.
Colossians, 'Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ' (2:16). To the Galatians he wrote more strongly, 'You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you' |
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Regarding transubstation, I'll take the early church's view over anything more recent, but that is another debate - and not one to go into here.
| Quote: | | 'Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ' |
What translation are you using there?
In my opening post I mentioned that temple worship was instituted, by God, as a shadow of heavenly things. Christ, fully God, instituted the Eucharist meal in rememberance of Him - that is, as a shadow of the reality of Christ Himself.
"Let no man judge you... with regard to a religious festival"
Indeed. That works both ways of course.
Of course, the in the above St Paul does not condemn anyone for observing religious (Christian) festivals, and in fact it is spoken of as a given. If it really was wrong, then St Paul would have condemned the Colossians as well as the Galatians. This is why I believe your use of Galatians is pure eisegesis:
| Quote: | | 'You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you' |
The previous verses to this talk of the Galatians "turning back" to their old practices. The Galatian's old practices were certainly not Christian, probably not even Jewish, but Pagan. The rebuke was aimed at the Galatians turning back to their old Pagan ways, and merging them with Christian worship. If we are Christian, why carry on observing the old feast days? It is not, however, a rebuke for observing any festival or feast day. St Paul was not condemning the observance of Christian festivals in the above passage, so it should not be used to condemn them now.
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jtheb
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think you need to read Galatians from the start.
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keepingthefaith
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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There is now't more pagan than the church of Rome. It has a practise to celebrate another practise and when that's done there's another and now we are told there's one that goes on for 5 hours 
| Quote: | | Liturgy attributed to St James the Apostle is 5 hours long! |
another pagan ritual, and don't say it's not because Christ is ALL in ALL and He should be the one (if any) that we should Liturgy, for 5 hours (if that's the appropriate name because I haven't saw it used outside of the Catholic church)
as jtheb asked of you, please read Galatians from the start  |
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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The Liturgy of St James is not Roman Catholic.
The Eucharist is not soley Roman Catholic.
Liturgy is Greek word meaning the work of the people, so you are right(ish) about the usage.
The Liturgy is done at the command of Christ, in rememberance of His Last earthly Supper, and in service to Him.
| Quote: | | Christ is ALL in ALL |
I can't think of anywhere in the Divine Liturgy He isn't.
Sorry about the briskness, but I have to go out now. I'll come back nd add more later.
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Hello all,
I wasn't entirely sure (not having a Bible to hand) whether Paul's letter to the Galatians was addresing Pagan influences or the Judaizers who wanted to impose observance of Jewish festivals upon the church there. I now know it to be the latter. The point still stands, Paul was not condemning the practice of observing special days, but the Galatians returning to Jewish practice and observing Old Covenant practice. We are under Grace, not Law, but then the feast days of the Church are not legalistic, but done to build and nurture community.
Looking back, it also seems that perhaps Anne thought the Liturgy of St. James is done in his honour. Just to clarify, the Liturgy carries his name because he is considered to be the author. The Liturgy is completely Christ centred - as are the Liturgies of St Basil and of St John Chrsysostom more commonly used in Orthodox churches today.
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-theophilus-
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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We've wandered off into discussing feast days, which is not the same as weekly observance of the Lord's Day.
That was done by St. Paul - we have a record of him doing this on Malta, and previously when he and Barnabas were called away. The fellowship of the NT Church practisced on the Lord's Day is variously described as "Liturgy" (service) or of being "in the Spirit"
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